A DEFEAT at home is disappointing, a defeat at home to the manager you wanted gone in place of the current one is even more disappointing. Even if you try to console yourself, deep down, that it might just help his England chances.
Liverpool’s league season ended, really, a week after winning the Carling Cup. Six days after, if we’re being accurate. Arsenal played like a team who’d have been happy with a draw and Liverpool played them off the park. But Arsenal had a bang-on-form van Persie and Liverpool were still struggling with penalties. Arsenal got all three points.
They weren’t the first ‘big’ team to come to Anfield this season looking like they’d be happy to go back home with a point; a sign of the respect, maybe, that opposing managers have for this Liverpool side and its manager. Respect that, sadly, some Liverpool fans just don’t have for this side or its manager. This side isn’t without its faults – far from it – but maybe those opposing managers have more of an idea of Liverpool’s qualities than the tabloid headline writers that some of Liverpool’s supporters seem to gravitate towards.
Remember, Liverpool’s league season was over after that defeat at home to Arsenal. European qualification was already assured, Champions League qualification was now out of the question. The transfer window was closed too. Internally the club would be looking at what changes were needed for next season’s league campaign – and Damien Comolli was clearly one of the changes identified. Externally that’s more or less all we know about any changes that were identified and which of those will be implemented. The transfer window is still closed.
Defeat to West Brom – the first one at home since a time long before Roy Hodgson became anybody’s manager – looks bad. In reality Liverpool were far from bad, it was a performance that would win most games for most teams. But it wasn’t the first time this season that Liverpool’s chances haven’t been turned into goals and, like the last game that followed a Wembley victory, missed chances cost the Reds all three points.
Two of those missed chances hit the woodwork, making it 30 times now in the league this season that the frame of the goal has foiled Kenny’s side. All in all Liverpool have got 40 goals in the league this season – four of them own goals – from a total of 594 shots. 354 of those shots were either on target, blocked or hit the woodwork, only 36 of them went in.
Earlier on in the season, to paraphrase him slightly, Kenny Dalglish said that if Liverpool play like this every game they’ll win more than they lose. And he was right too. But at times this season Liverpool haven’t played like that for all ninety minutes or – in some cases – at all. Liverpool need to hold their nerve now and play like that for the rest of the season. The law of averages will overcome sod’s law sooner or later.
Liverpool need tweaking, a bit of rubbing out and adding to, not screwing up and starting again.
It’s a side that can win – once it works out how to get the ball the right side of the woodwork.
The Twitter Blame Wave
As for the angry minority on Twitter, it didn’t take long for the blame wave to start flooding timelines. Disappointment becomes anger and that anger needs a focus. Some of it isn’t anger and a lot of it is understandable but maybe, just maybe, it’s better not to look for scapegoats but to look for small things that can make the kind of difference that matters.
Here’s a selection:
Kenny brought three attacking subs on, but:
Anyone for Raheem????? 2 x unused CBs and a FB on bench
Mocking Hodgson before the game
slating hodgson haha ur a w****r look at kenny u clueless f***,listen to anfield wrap u making joke of woy.were midtable
Liverpool can still be relegated? (They can’t)
Don’t worry Jim, we’re heading towards the bottom half of the table.
Sacking Hodgson in the first place?
what an irony the manager who was shown the door has done one over us.
(a minute later) has woy done us over twice this season? (no)
well RH couldn’t have asked for a better return and two finger salute to those that wanted him out!!!
Blame one of the subs?
bellers stunk the place out since hes come on, player we should be relying, looking unable to move ball with ne purpose 25yds!
Sack this manager?
if we don’t win daglish should go. Worse than woy? (At least spell his name right).
must be kenny fault we (We what?)
Today is not about luck. This has been happening all season. Its poor finishing/coaching. Admit it
We are a joke mate,and to lose to this b***** is painful. yes we created a lot today,but look at the table,its not bd lck ffs
If we can’t blame luck who can we blame? Let’s blame Jim:
happy with that then ?
“@JimBoardman: Oh no, here comes the Twitter blame wave.” come off it, it’s not undeserved is it?!
“@JimBoardman: Oh no, here comes the Twitter blame wave.” and rightfully so.
your hero dalglish getting stick is he
that’s ok jim, everythings just rosy. Its only the 20th time its hsppened this season. You uber fans keep your chin up though.
Someone is to blame?!? Who do you think should take the rap?!
But we have to blame someone surely?
so should everyone just remain silent and forget about it?
what wrong with that I support them on the pitch .. We ard entitled to an opinion not just use experts
All clubs have the same resources of course:
Never mind mentality, the players are mediocre & nearer to the level of WBA than the likes of united, city etc
Should every1 be ok with being nearly 40pts behind the Mancs?? The #blamewave is deserved!
Simple?
Sh** strikers
we missed easy chances, we missed chances professional top class footballers should score, then they missed them again…
This next one is constructive isn’t it? It says it is anyway:
Am not goin to moan at LFC but constructive criticism is a must. Sell Hendo, JonJoke and Spearing! They wudnt get a game on Stanley Park!!!!
I think we’ve established we can’t get relegated and that European qualification is assured, but…
time to stop blaming bad Luck and start blaming bad finishing, 4 games left and counting
The owners sack the director of football, but:
in Kenny we trust but at what cost if he didn’t see that this team need a goal scorer in Jan that’s down 2 him blind faith
Since that director of football left Liverpool have played twice, winning one and losing the other. But…
think the uncertainty re coaching staff, DoF etc hurting the team. Has to be on players minds.
Remember, it has to be somebody’s fault. And if it’s not the players it must be…
so players immune to blame now? Shocking result. Everytime lfc let fans down its fans fault?
That’s not what I said. But it’s what someone else said, sort of:
not blaming anyone but don’t you think from the start fans inside Anfield could have offered more support
Piety:
the results are unacceptable. No amount of piety can disguise that.
Definitely Jim’s fault:
do you actually watch the game? Instead of tweeting a blade of grass has grown another inch
The best one of all, someone with a sense of humour and a touch of perspective:
If I catch the f***wit who keeps rubbing the post with the leather magnet., he’s getting a Chinese burn
These are obviously the worst examples of what Twitter can be like – it’s generally a good place to talk about the Reds, as long as you remember you need a sense of humour in the hours following anything less than a two-nil win. And yes, that means a sense of humour has been needed a lot this season.
Next up for the Reds are Norwich, whose biggest threat is to kids who post photos of their new kit online a few hours before launch. They are also one of those teams who got points at Anfield this season with a bit of help (twice) from the woodwork in a 1-1 draw in October. Whatever happens, injuries and red cards aside, it won’t make much of a difference to Liverpool’s season or the work needed in the summer.
April 23, 2012 at 5:11 pm
So once the Carling Cup was won we should have packed away the kits and gone on holiday in waiting for next season? Brilliant. Fantastic stuff.
I see we are levelling all of the recruitment issues at Comolli as well. He may take the blame for the hugely inflated prices, but Kenny picked the players. It’s his team that are 37 points off the pace.
Does anyone think we should let Dalglish do more business in the summer after seeing this disaster of a season unfold.
April 23, 2012 at 5:40 pm
The Reds need a new manager; as simple as that.
April 23, 2012 at 5:45 pm
No they don’t,They need a striker and a winger, simples
April 23, 2012 at 5:40 pm
If the league results are almost always the barometer of whether a manager keeps or loses his job,then all you can say is Kenny is skating on thin ice.
If your status as aclub legend is the deciding factor well then as the clubs biggest living legend he is unsackable.
However if as we well know he has only the best interests of LFC and its fans as his priority he can see that the job of steering Liverpool forward requires an established modern day coach.
Kenny with the best will in the world is not the man for this role.
This is not to say that he can’t play an inportant role in the future of LFC.
April 23, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Tweaks? The kenny’s friends brigade is really out in force this Monday, aren’t they? Where were you all when Roy was stinking up the joint? We are heading for our worst PPG total since the 50s, taking the 2-for-a-win into account. Think about that. Since the 1950s. Souness managed liverpool for 3 of those years and didn’t get close to being as bad as we’re going to finish this year.
“oh, but the league’s over” won’t wash with winners like Henry. Hodgson would have rightly been crucified for coming out with that hogwash last year. Dalglish gets respect for his past but I’m afraid his currently paid position is as “manager of liverpool”, not “legend of liverpool”. He’s dragged the club backwards in the last 12 months and his buys, which he’s happy to claim shared responsibility with Comolli, have been dire, each worse than the other.
If you want to know how out of his depth, behind the times Dalglish is, study his reign at Newcastle where he took a title challenging team down to 13th, from where they are only now recovering. Dalglish has form – just ask toon fans what they thought of his tactics-less play, non-existant subs and simply woeful buys.
so called “journalist” mates of his, like you, making appalling excuses for him and just pretending the last month or so “doesn’t really count” and putting fingers in your ears, isn’t helping the situation. What will the excuse be next season when we’re lying 7th in December – “oh, the owners should have given dalglish another 100m to waste on English cloggers…blame the owners, yanks out”
at some point, you have to see what’s in front of your eyes.
April 23, 2012 at 11:46 pm
And who exactly do you want for the job John & how long do you want to give him?? Your mates in Newcastle would be experts would’nt they after all the trophies they have collected over the years. Of the three managers currently in British football who have actually won a Title in England, Kenny is the youngest & the only one to do it with different clubs. People like you should just hop on down to Stamford Bridge, because I doubt that you are actually a fan of the club. Anyone that needs the Roy thing explained to them is’nt really worth arguing with. It’s just been a bad year for the club all around, ever since Ian Ayre mentioned getting more money for the TV rights everything has gone completely against us. Employ a proper CEO to do the business for a start, add 3 quality players & things will be very different next year.
April 24, 2012 at 1:17 am
Oh so what happens when the next manager comes in, and nothing’s change, we sack him too? If you like changing manager so often, then jump on over to the chelsea bandwagon. And no we’re not making excuses for him, it’s just that we show a little more faith, a little more patience. Isn’t that suppose to be the liverpool way? Or has it change?
He deserves another season at least, we did add a trophy to our collection this season didn’t we? And maybe another on the way. I can’t think of a club that sacks their manager after actually winning something, bar.. Chelsea.
April 23, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Jim, I think the point here is that you can show how daft people’s reactions can be, but when you point it out to them, it only creates more of the same.
April 23, 2012 at 7:04 pm
Yet again I read in the comments about points per game this season and that last season Hodgson was sacked and we had better points per game.
That’s a very misleading comment, it’s true we finished with better ppg last season but when Hodgson was sacked it was on less ppg than we have this season. Last season’s finishing ppg was actually thanks to Dalglish.
What I don’t understand with most comments is what happened to “it takes time to build a team”? Basically if Shankly was manager now and had the same record as he had in his first few seasons then fans would be calling for his head. This is not the way of real Liverpool fans. Real Liverpool fans have patience and don’t demand instant success because they realise that it takes time to build a great team, unless you want to be like Chelsea who bought instant success but now have to have to be among the highest spenders every season just to challenge for the top 4 and that lack of foundation means no manager can be afforded time there, that system is unsustainable with FFP coming in. If you just want instant glory then support them or Man City. If you have the patience required to support a team trying to rebuild it’s foundations then you have to give Dalglish and the younger players he signed time to prove themselves.
This was a rebuilding and gelling season, it was always going to be, obviously we hoped to be challenging for top 4 but that just was not to be. But let’s be honest after last season’s debacle most Liverpool supporters would have been happy if they were told they would spend the season in the top half of the league, win a cup, and be in the final of the other cup. The main problem is simple, it’s been obvious we should have won the majority of the games we have drawn/lost. So we know we could have been a lot higher up the table. But this is why the arguments against KD and even the signings fall down. If we’ve been in the position that we should have won so many games then how can the manager be doing a terrible job? How can the new signings be not good enough if we’ve been dominating so many games?
April 23, 2012 at 7:25 pm
we dont need a new manager, although I would like to see Rafa brought back into the club in some way, its a waste to lose his genius, we dont need new players – we need people who support each other – we DONT need people who moan and groan and boo and whinge, I wish those of u who do that would simply F*** off to Goodison or OT or any where else in the universe! ciao!
April 23, 2012 at 11:58 pm
Rafa talk is not helping anyone. He won’t be back at this club so just let it go. Rafa had his 6 years, but it’s over now & he needs to stop hanging around like an embarrasing exgirlfriend trying to tell you about how good it could have been if you had stuck with her. There were lots of very poor displays in Rafa’s days, the Kop chanting attack but nothing happening & then invariable captain marvel would pull something out of the bag. Kenny will get it right, once you’re creating the chances you are half way there. REmember Ramos at Spurs & all the other mistakes clubs have made with managers. They grass isn’t always greener on the otherside. Ps my Man UtD friends don’t want Kenny as manager, that tells alot.
April 25, 2012 at 2:47 pm
Bet they don’t want Rafa either
April 23, 2012 at 7:30 pm
p.s.
note to the writer and anyone else on this article PLEASE dont call these defeatist “fannies” SUPPORTers!!
April 23, 2012 at 8:20 pm
Wonderful – the old “if you criticise the manager you’re not a real fan” argument. Fantastic.
Do you really think a manager of Bentiez’s ability is going to come in as a DOF or similar?
People need to face up to the fact that Downing, Adam, Carroll, Suarez etc are not playing to the standard they showed at their previous clubs. It’s not like we are asking them to be world beaters, just to play to the level they have shown they are capable of attaining. If it was one player you could say he was off form, when it’s half a team the blame has to fall on the manager.
And if I hear one more person mention a lack of luck when trying to play down our underperformance, my head just might explode.
April 23, 2012 at 8:22 pm
People need to agree with your opinions, you mean.
April 23, 2012 at 8:49 pm
People are free to disagree, but instead of making arguments they are making excuses.
I won’t ever deride someone for having an opinion.
For those that point to the success that Kenny had at the end of last season, can they explain why he then decided to take the formula that worked so well and tear it up, signing players who don’t fit in and then getting the entire to under perform?
Dalglish had time to put his stamp on the club over the summer, and now we’re left with a mark that will require expensive surgery to correct.
April 23, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Well, yes. Except you called it a “fact” when it wasn’t, but anyway…
I don’t have much to say to you modern “now, now, NOW” types. I really don’t believe I could sway your opinion, so I won’t try. I don’t agree with you at all, but for the sake of discussion, rather than having a childish “you’re wrong, I’m right” kind of debate, let’s entertain your thoughts for a while and tell me exactly what you think should be done…… Dalglish out, out OUT! Fine. Now you have no manager and no direction at all. So what next? Who is going to replace him? What would be the new team philosophy? Which players should be sold/bought? It’s the easiest thing in the world to demand someone’s head, that won’t win you any points at all. Tell us the formula for further improvement…. Now is the chance for you to really shine….
April 23, 2012 at 8:48 pm
Again, if the players aren’t good enough then how are they able to dominate the majority of games they play, including games against Arsenal and Manchester United?
I’m not saying bad luck, I’m saying that when given time to gel as a team, a team that is able to dominate games will be able to turn domination into goals.
You want to buy your way from midtable to top-4? That costs £250m just ask Man City, if you don’t have that much to spend then you need to develop a team and that takes more than one season.
April 23, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Well said Mike!!!!
April 24, 2012 at 8:02 am
Lack of luck. Go and blow your head up!
April 23, 2012 at 8:34 pm
It’s amazing how short our so called ‘supporters’ memories are these days. If Kenny does lose his job in the summer, and personally I think he will, we should never underestimate or forget what he did for us post Hodgson. There is no other man that could have come in and reunited the club like he did during that period. He also gave the fans their pride back and a some hope for the future when everything looked to bleak. I would love to see him get another season but unfortunately his task this season was to get in the top four (which in my view was unrealistic) and he has fallen a long way short. We should never forget what that man has done for the club and he deserves a lot more respect than what many of you blood thirsty so called fans give him at the moment.
April 23, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Liverpool need 2 players only, a right winger and a poacher. I would go for Nathan Dyer of Swansea (R/W) and Dempsey of Fulham, both are proven in the Premier League. Dempsey scores goals every season, and Dyer is superb on the right!!!!
April 23, 2012 at 8:56 pm
I want to post a meaningful reply to your article but trying to summarise my feelings about Liverpool’s season is very difficult. What I can say with some confidence is that this is the strangest season I’ve ever experienced as a supporter and I will never ever forget it.
The Suarez saga, the woodwork syndrome, the split personality problem in the cups and league, it’s absolutely bizaare. I wouldn’t be surprised if a chemical imbalance has developed in my brain because I’ve never felt so up and down over such short spaces of time (regularly) – look at the delight of the semi-final win and the disastrous defeat yesterday within eight days for an example. It must be horrible being a mid table club regularly because there’s no such thing as a winning streak.
I agree with you Jim in that this team needs tweaks and not dissection. Creating chances is arguably the hardest thing to do and we’ve done that in absolute abundance, as the stats prove. It’s frightening the difference a goal poacher could make to this team. There always seems to be a piece missing from LFC’s jigsaw but I really don’t think we are that far away, certainly not as much as the points gap suggests.
I had a debate with a friend today regarding the 30 no. woodwork strikes. He argued it was ALL profligacy whilst I argued that PART of it HAS to be bad luck. I think this is what Kenny is trying to say recently, but it doesn’t wash with this generation of media-influenced fans. Look at Henderson’s effort yesterday – was that a bad effort and a testament to poor training methods? Or was it simply a very good effort that was unlucky not to be two inches lower, allowing it to cannon into the back of the net?
The standard of football is the best I’ve seen since Rafa’s team in 2009. Okay that’s only 3 years ago but I’d have to go back to Roy Evans’ side circa 1996 to remember a Liverpool team that creates more chances. That’s a step in the right direction in my eyes.
A point regarding Comolli – everyone seems to think he is a scapegoat, further to Kenny’s dignified admission on the day he was sacked that he in fact picked the targets. Something a massive amount of our fans and journalists haven’t seemed to interpret is the fact that Comolli would have negotiated transfer fees. Kenny may have said ‘I want Carroll’ but I certainly wouldn’t have thought he said ‘and I’m willing to pay up to £35m’. That’s not me blindly supporting Kenny, I would just be very surprised if that wasn’t the case, otherwise what would be the point of a Director of Football? And that has been the biggest issue with our signings – at the moment (I stress: at the moment) they don’t look value for money.
The league campaign, let’s face it, is a serious embarrassment and at times we’ve become a laughing stock, but as Mike Plumpton’s brilliant post highlights, we can’t fall into the trap of Man City and Chelsea’s unsustainable approach of changing managers – where a big transfer kitty is required time and again so the new manager can create his own side.
I have a sneaky suspicion this team could spark to life with some subtle changes – and very soon. Sometimes a step backwards comes before a period of progression.
April 23, 2012 at 9:08 pm
The football this season has been excellent as any fan who goes the match will know, we have been fantastic in many games. How many fans who post on here know what, SAM DODDS is??????
April 23, 2012 at 9:08 pm
I just don’t get what the big deal is, I really don’t.
As Jim said our PL campaign ended after the Arsenal defeat, which was basically a game we should have won comfortably but didn’t due to poor finishing and yes, whether you guys like it or not: bad luck.
Since Xmas I can’t remember a team playing Arsenal of the park like that, Arsenal were flying at the time and we destroyed them, just like we destroyed many teams this season (including WBA yesterday) but somehow ended up on the losing side.
Once CL qualification was ruled out I genuinely wasn’t too bothered where we’d end up in the table, I thought it a good opportunity to blood some young players for the last few games of the season and keep the seniors in good shape for the cup run, which incidentally has become our second final, after winning the first, which by any standards is pretty fantastic progress on last couple of years.
Football is about winning and silverware, not celebrating your team finishing 5th or wherever you lot expect us to be, we’d all love to be in the CL of course, but we’re not the only big club that’s going to be left out of it, it’s football, that’s just the way it goes sometimes.
We’ve a promising young team with some exciting prospects emerging from the academy, and we’ve a manager who adores the club and us along with it.
Like, how many managers do you know would be brought to tears by winning the Carling Cup? None I bet, except for Kenny, because that’s what winning a trophy for the club means to him, and that’s what we mean to him, and if you don’t believe it just go and talk to the families of the 96, I’m sure they’ll have no prob filling you in on the kind of man he is. He deserves a fuck of a lot more than the crap you lot are giving him. Especially when it’s so obvious you’re not watching the games, you can’t be, because if you were the truth would be staring you in the face and you wouldn’t be on here spouting nonsense.
So the next time a result goes against us, before you hit twitter or any of the other ridiculous ‘outlets for the anonymous’, just take a moment to remember the Carling Cup final, remember playing Arsenal off the park, remember beating United and Chelsea comfortably and remember our cup finals, because this baiting of Kenny is bang out of order and totally unwarranted.
He’s a top class manager of a young, evolving, developing side. I’ve every faith that he knows what he’s doing and he’s going to get us to where we want to be..just have a little patience and have a little respect.
And for the love of God be happy and look forward to the final!
April 23, 2012 at 9:35 pm
Hear, hear. I was thinking it was a great chance for the kids too. Talking of which, if anyone is in any doubt about how we are not giving 100% in the league right now, then look at when we brought Sterling on to make his debut – losing 2-1 at home to Wigan. If you are really determined to get a result there, you don’t turn to an untried 17-year-old rookie.
…and that’s why I don’t really care much about the rest of the league games, since the team don’t. Sure, it would be great to win them, but it’s really not important now. I think the only reason Kenny hasn’t played the kids the last month or so is because we still have something to play for this season and so needs to keep the top brass match fit. It will be interesting to see what he does with the two irrelevant games after the final.
Jim got it spot on. It was all about that Arsenal game. If we won (as we should have, of course), we would have been 4pts off 4th with a game in hand. As it happened, we ended up 10pts off and it was looking decidedly dodgy. It was still possible of course, but we were still in the cup….and so it became a matter of priority. In an ideal world, you go 100% every game. But you just can’t do that in the modern game, some things have to take priority. From that moment on, the cup was our priority. With EL qualification already in the bag (whether that is good or bad), the slim chance of 4th was all we had to play for. I have no doubt, if we were out of the cup, we would have still gone hammer and tongs at it, like we did at the end of last season, but things are different when you still have silverware to play for. I couldn’t give a toss if we lose the last 4 Prem games and finish 17th. It makes no difference. There is only more match this season that I care about.
The one contrary thing I will say about it is that I was hoping they would still put in a bit more of a fight (but still giving the cup priority) until it was mathematically impossible, (which was only this last weekend actually), but rather than getting more and more annoyed with each increasing number of defeats, I have actually cared less and less as the slim chance passed into impossibility and therefore irrelevance.
The point is now that we cant get 4th. Whether we miss out on it by goal difference or 100 points. It just doesn’t matter. What does matter is a cup final at Wembley. So stop worrying about the Prem, get on board and get behind the team a week on Sat. And if you think winning 2 out of 3 trophies you are in, in one season, is a failure, go get your head examined. It’s a surefire sign that a team is going great.
April 23, 2012 at 10:17 pm
Its interesting how the mind works once youv’e decided to defend a position no matter what.
can you please explain how our league results are no better before the Carling Cup and after.
Also maybe some of us can remember Bolton away,Stoke at home playing 5 at the back,similarly Spurs at home plus a number of other inept performances.
April 23, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Every team including title challengers have bad days, Stoke and Bolton being definite bad days. Manchester United lost to Wigan and never deserved anything from that game, Manchester City have had bad days this season.
The Spurs game can’t be put in the same bracket. We were 1-0 down when we went down to 10 men, we were till 1-0 down 40 minutes later when we went down to 9 men. So even with a man less we were holding our own a man down against an in-form team who at the time actually looked like title challengers, the game only went away from us when we lost the second man and the 9 got overran conceding 3 goals.
April 23, 2012 at 11:01 pm
Gerry,
We all remember the abject performances of the past few months, and we’re not saying that the Carling cup is the be all and end all of the season. But if you want to focus in on certain periods and certain results then what about the run we had after the Spurs match early on in the season? It went: WWWDDWWDWDW! And that was just up until the end of November! We were flying then. And I know it’s a nonsense statistic, but if every shot that hit a bar or post for us this campaign hit the net instead we’d comfortably be in the CL places, and that statistic doesn’t come from Paul Tomkins or Dan Kennett or other such stat heavy observers, but none other than Paddy Barclay in this evenings London Evening Standard , one of our biggest critics.
And incidentally, that brilliant run we had before xmas had Lucas starting every game! He has been a colossal loss, God only knows where we’d be if he didn’t get injured, it’s such a shame.
I haven’t decided to ‘defend a decision no matter what’. I’m just looking at the facts, and the facts are that we’ve been horrendously unlucky with injuries and balls hitting the posts, the PL has seen nothing like it, but even through all that we’ve won a cup, we’re in another final, and we’ve beaten the Mancs, Everton (a few times) and Chelsea to boot.
Not bad going considering.
Sometimes shit happens, and since xmas it has for us. I’m not saying Kenny is beyond criticism, but we need to put things in perspective. Look how awful Arsenal were in the early part of the season compared to the last 4 months, they’ve been on fire, yet it wasn’t so long ago that everyone wanted Wenger’s head on a plate. Christ, they were beaten 7-1 at Old Trafford! That’s humiliation! But they got through it, and one of their players got named footballer of the year last night.
It’s a funny old game, Gerry. We could be in for plenty surprises yet.
YNWA
April 23, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Danny do you really think it’s a case of saying “ah sure the league is over, we’ll just play at 70% from hear on in”? If that’s the case Kenny should be sacked on the spot. It’s an outrageous notion.
You don’t care if we finish 17th? I can’t believe I’m reading this nonsense. You think we are doing great? The mind boggles.
April 23, 2012 at 10:40 pm
Doesn’t that depend on who has that mentality? If it’s the manager’s mentality then yes there’s a problem, but could it not be the players’ mentality, and not just the players KD bought.
They’re in a situation where top-4 looks out of reach but there’s important games still to play in a cup, if you were in that situation would you still give everything and risk injury and missing the important cup games when you have basically nothing to play for in the league. Even if it’s not a conscious decision to not give their all it will be in the subconsious and even the best most man-motivating manager will not be able to coax the best out of a player in that situation.
April 23, 2012 at 10:47 pm
I’m not questioning whether that’s the case Mike, I’m questioning Danny’s insinuation that we aren’t trying in the league. He cites using Sterling against Wigan as evidence.
On one hand he says that it’s over and just focus on the cup, and a few sentences later says we’re not playing the kids because we still have something to play for and need to keep the first team fit for the cup. Surely if the league had been discarded then we’d be fielding weakened teams, giving the youngsters a chance? But that’s just not happening.
The idea that we’re not trying in the league is ridiculous, we had somewhere in the region of 30 shots yesterday. Does that sound like a team that’s not trying?
April 23, 2012 at 10:49 pm
You should really learn to read with more care. There is a difference between not trying and not giving 100%. If you are going to reference me, I would appreciate it if you were accurate about what I said. Cheers.
April 23, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Outrageous? lol I think it is the intelligent and smart thing to do. I applaud and appreciate him and the team for it. Giving us maximum chance for the cup. You would prefer to waste ourselves in meaningless fixtures? Tell me then, if you have already qualified for the EL, you can’t finish higher than 5th and you can’t be relegated, what can you win and what can you lose? If you are having difficulty with that, I’ll answer it for you…. NOTHING AT ALL!
Now rather than the (albeit amusing) righteous indignation and trying to tell us what is wrong, why not answer the points I asked you on the other post and tell us what is the right thing to do?
April 23, 2012 at 10:58 pm
Ignorance is bliss.
So the players now can pick and chose what games they wish to perform in with no sanction from the manager.I’m shocked any Liverpool suporter would find this acceptable in any circumstances.
Also it seems you’re not aware that the higher up the table you finish the more money the club receives from the Premier Lge.But i suppose you’ll tell me LFC dont need the money.
April 23, 2012 at 11:02 pm
You’re right. I forgot that in our fantasy world, players never suffer from fatigue and motivation doesn’t exist. And yes, the extra peanuts for the conference room would really be worth messing up the cup for. How silly of me. Jeeeeeeez!
April 23, 2012 at 11:26 pm
I hadn’t noticed your earlier message, not posted on here before so struggling to follow the flow of messages. I wasn’t ignoring you.
Firstly, what I said about Downing, Carroll, Adam and Suarez is a fact. They are not performing to the levels they have showed previously no-one can argue that. Any stat you care to post will only back that up.
Secondly, you didn’t answer my question, just retorted with one of your own.
Thirdly, what gave the impression that I was demanding instant success? Is not tolerating mediocrity seen as impatience now?
FWIW I think we do need a new manager, I was against appointing Dalglish in the first place. I think it was a romantic notion, one which has backfired. He has overhauled the squad and we are worse off than we were before. Yes cup wins are enjoyable, but any manager in football will tell you teams are judged on their league performance. Birmingham won the CC last season and were relegated.
I think we need to appoint a younger, enthusiastic manager, preferably with European experience. A manager who likes to play attractive, attacking football and one who can see the club as a long term project. Someone like Unai emery who has done a wonderful job with cash strapped Valencia. Or Jurgen Klopp who has looks like winning his second title with a young, vibrant (and cheaply assembled) Dortmund team.
As for what the squad needs; a DM for a start, we’ve fallen asunder since Lucas’ injury. Charlie Adam is not a starter for Liverpool FC. A proper RW so we can stop playing Kuyt/Bellamy/whoever out there. A new CB so Carragher can be retired. And a striker who can put the ball in the net. At thi point we’d get so little for our expensive recruits the only option is to play them and hope they come good, otherwise we’ll be writing off millions.
Dalglish has looked devoid of ideas when the chips have been down. Another manager could get more out of this squad, simply by getting them to play to the level they have shown before.
April 23, 2012 at 11:44 pm
No, that isn’t a fact, it is an opinion. Your criteria of “performance” is far too vague to be considered without selective criteria. For example, take Downing. Has he scored as many goals as he did for Villa? No. Has he created more clear cut chances? Yes. It all depends on what you look for, so it is subjective and therefore an opinion. You’re gonna have to give more objective variables to qualify it as fact.
“Dalglish had time to put his stamp on the club over the summer” Since you think one summer is enough, I would qualify that as demanding instant success. But hey, that’s my OPINION
Just like “tolerating mediocrity” is yours. I think generally our performances have been excellent.
But anyway, I don’t want to continue with this. As much as I do appreciate you giving your point of view, I could be here for hours showing you why I think you are waaaaaaay off the mark, and as I said at the beginning, you wouldn’t change anyway. You’re just trotting opinion after opinion that I totally disagree with. I really don’t like the way you try to pass them off as fact too. “Yes cup wins are enjoyable, but any manager in football will tell you teams are judged on their league performance” I mean, seriously????? :O
I will just say that if there was a non-rhetorical question you asked me and want answering, just repeat it and I will answer it.
April 23, 2012 at 11:56 pm
JP it’s rare for players to perform for a new club at the same level as their previous club immediately, they take time to adjust. For every Torres (to Liverpool) who adjusts immediately there’s a Lucas, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel and going back in time even Dalglish himself who have struggled at first but come good in a Liverpool shirt.
April 24, 2012 at 12:02 am
I do accept that Mike, but as we just being “unlucky” that almost all of our new signings are underperforming? Or is there something else at play, i.e. the manager failing to get the best out of them.
I’m not saying it’s a fact (right Danny?) but I feel it has to be considered.
April 24, 2012 at 12:13 am
I wouldn’t say it’s bad luck, the opposite actually, given the majority of players take time to adjust we would have been very lucky if 2 or more players did adjust seamlessly (Jose Enrique barring the odd mistake has adjusted very well). So I’d say giving the players an adjustment season isn’t bad luck, it’s what should have been expected.
April 24, 2012 at 10:02 am
Ah yes! now we know what your issue really is. We want a young European Manager who dresses smart & we can all believe is a tactfull genious, or at least he is before he comes to England. AVB, Ramos, Gross, Sven, Capello Benitez anyone!!! Unbelievable the standard of “fan” we attract these days
April 24, 2012 at 12:09 am
I guess Harry REdnap should be sacked as well then JP. And they are going to make him England manager, & he’s naver won anything ever in his career
April 24, 2012 at 12:16 am
Go and ask Spurs fans if they are happy with their capitulation this season. I’ve spoken to a few and I can tell you they aren’t. And their issues have all started since the talk of Redknapp for England surfaced.
Redknapp is a spoofer, he has done nothing in his career to suggest that he is capable of managing the England team. He gets talked up by the media because he’s a right geezer and he gives them lots of soundbites, usually leaning out of his car window.
I’m not getting drawn into another argument mate.
April 24, 2012 at 10:10 am
Go and ask any Spurs fan where they were before Harry took over mate. They were on the back of one of those Spanish Managers that you’re calling for – & were deep in the relagation zone. It took Harry three years to take them back up to where they are now, and yes, Harry is no genious.
April 23, 2012 at 11:57 pm
I didn’t set out what my criteria for performances were, so how can you say it’s too vague. Downing hasn’t scored as many goals, assisted as many goals or created as many chances as he did for Villa. In fact his contribution in the league reads 0 goals, 0 assists. As a fanbase we seen to be great at latching onto different metrics to prove a point; I’d bet most people hadn’t heard of the “Clear Cut Chances” one until recently. Players used to be rated on goals and assists. That’s until they perform poorly and we look for any plus point we can find. The important figures are £20m, 1 goals, 0 assists (all comps).
I do believe a summer is an adequate amount of time, given the huge turnover of players in and out I think it’s reasonable to suggest KD moulded the team as he liked. I’m not demanding success, I don’t have any sense of entitlement. I’d just like to know how people think it’s acceptable that after the money we spent, we’re likely to finish off worse than last season when we basically had the squad that Roy Hodgson left?
I for one can’t feel content that our performances have been excellent, when I see us throw away a two goal lead at QPR, or when we lose 2-1 at home to Wigan, or 1-0 at home to West Brom.
I stand by my statement about being judged on league performance.
And as for the question that I asked that you didn’t answer, here it is;
“For those that point to the success that Kenny had at the end of last season, can they explain why he then decided to take the formula that worked so well and tear it up, signing players who don’t fit in and then getting the entire to under perform?”
April 24, 2012 at 12:10 am
“I didn’t set out what my criteria for performances were, so how can you say it’s too vague.”
Well, exactly! Without the criteria, it is vague!
“Downing hasn’t scored as many goals, assisted as many goals or created as many chances as he did for Villa”
Well, 2 out those 3 are correct, sure. 1 isn’t.
And I stand by my statement that you demand instant success.
As for your question, I don’t think he did he did tear it up. Back to different opinions yet again
Most team can only dream of dominating games like we do. However, we are truly the worst team at converting opportunities, as the now infamous chances to goals ratio shows. This is only thing that needs to change, we have the rest. We are team progressing well, but we are still exceptionally fragile. It all goes back to the title – We just need tweaks.
Sad to see so many wanting to take the easy path. Caring more about money than trophies. Preferring to moan rather than support. We’re not Chelsea. We don’t go chopping and changing managers every other year on a whim. Stop treating us like we are.
April 24, 2012 at 12:18 am
You’re not really offering anything here Danny, just saying you don’t agree. That doesn’t really add much to the debate.
April 24, 2012 at 12:21 am
I know, that was deliberate. As I said, I don’t want to add to it. It only goes so far before going round in circles and it has gone well past that point.
April 24, 2012 at 12:22 am
Well close it off then.
April 24, 2012 at 12:25 am
Hahaha, I thought I had.
April 24, 2012 at 12:25 am
Downing is actually the perfect example of what I’m talking about with adjustment time: he struggled when he joined Villa after leaving Middlesborough but came good for them.
April 24, 2012 at 12:34 am
He started slowly at Villa because he was injured for the first 3 months of the season and it took him a couple of months after that to build up full match fitness.
April 24, 2012 at 12:40 am
Doesn’t explain why it took him well into the next season to adjust, let’s see how he does next season.
April 24, 2012 at 12:14 am
Your right about Downing, so we sell him & anyone else who continues to underperform. All managers have their Downings, just look at Rafa’s last few signings. You don’t tear up everything just because one or two players aren’t carrying their weight.
April 24, 2012 at 12:19 am
Is that aimed at me Joe? Because I’ve not advocated selling Downing, or the other new recruits. I think, nay I’m sure, they would perform better under a different manager.
April 24, 2012 at 12:44 am
For some reason I couldn’t quote you there Mike.
Re Downing – he had a great start to the next season, scoring in the first game of the season, and netting 4 more before Christmas. I wouldn’t consider that a slow start.
April 24, 2012 at 1:02 am
The thing I find most terrifying is the craven double standards being employed. Hodgson was absolutely slaughtered for a run of form that was actually better than daglish’s last twenty games. Think about that.
But, oh, it’s ok because it’s “King” Kenny, fouling the place up as badly as he did at SJP ten years ago.
And this other poor excuse about awful players “needing time”. I’m sorry but the reason dalglish is supposed to have gone for British players is precisely because they wouldn’t need time that those odd johnny foreigners apparently need, another myth continually trotted out by the media in this country in an acceptably diluted form of lazy racism.
Quote of the page for me: “We are team progressing well”. Oh my, heading for our worst top tier performance since Elvis stepped into Sun Studio and some are still singing from the King Kenny hymn sheet – we’re actually “progressing well”, of course, in the Upside Down, Back To Front Oxford Dictionary meaning of “to progress”, and I quote: “to slump, to fall, to head to the cliff edge, to retreat in stark fashion”.
Yep, everything is hunk and indeed dory in upside down world.
April 24, 2012 at 9:44 am
Finally, someone who can see the light.
Well said Kevin.
April 24, 2012 at 12:01 pm
You might have a point…..well if it wasn’t for the fact your entire premise is simply not true.
“Hodgson was absolutely slaughtered for a run of form that was actually better than daglish’s last twenty games.”
What? How quickly time can distort the mind. Hodgson had us in the bottom half of table (and the relegation zone for a while), Dalglish has brought us silverware, let alone much, much better football. Think about that and don’t ever try and claim Hodgson was doing better.
“And this other poor excuse about awful players “needing time”. I’m sorry but the reason dalglish is supposed to have gone for British players is precisely because they wouldn’t need time that those odd johnny foreigners apparently need, another myth continually trotted out by the media in this country in an acceptably diluted form of lazy racism.”
Ok, so the media are guilty of lazy racism and LFC buying British because they don’t “need time” is a myth. Not really disagreeing, but that has nothing to do with Dalglish.
“Quote of the page for me: “We are team progressing well”. Oh my, heading for our worst top tier performance since Elvis stepped into Sun Studio and some are still singing from the King Kenny hymn sheet – we’re actually “progressing well”, of course, in the Upside Down, Back To Front Oxford Dictionary meaning of “to progress”, and I quote: “to slump, to fall, to head to the cliff edge, to retreat in stark fashion”
Last Year: 12th and beaten at home by Northampton.
This Year 8th and almost double trophy winners.
Yeah, that is obviously no progress at all, is it?
I think you need to get another dictionary, mate.
April 24, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Actually we bought British because we had to, last season we only named 21 players in our 25 man squad because we didn’t have enough homegrown players, after loaning out Cole and selling Konchesky (decisions I’m sure no-one disagrees with) we needed to bring British in else our squad would have been even smaller. There’s no reason to suggest that players from the same country adjust better than players from a different country, they still have to move house, make new friends and get used to a new style of play, the only advantage they may have is the language barrier because the Premier League is very different when you’re at a team who is an underdog in most games they play compared to a team who everyone expects to win most matches.
April 24, 2012 at 5:23 am
‘Liverpool need tweaking, a bit of rubbing out and adding to, not screwing up and starting again.’
Too bad you didnt point this out to Kenny at the end of last season…