Hicks delays Glorypark due to “extreme conditions”
A press release issued in Dallas overnight UK time will add more weight to the claims that Liverpool FC co-owner Tom Hicks will not be able to find suitable finance to purchase the other half of the club from partner George Gillett.
The Glorypark project in Arlington, Texas, is to be delayed due to financial concerns.
The Dallas Morning News quotes Hicks as saying: “We’re in the most difficult credit crunch I’ve seen the last 20 years.”
The press statement, from Hicks Holdings, said that “financing and construction of a proposed mixed use development between Rangers Ballpark and the new Cowboys stadium in Arlington has been put on hold because of ‘extreme conditions’ in the country’s financial and retail markets.”
It goes on to say that “the nation’s economic markets today have made it impossible to come to terms with lenders for Glorypark, a half billion dollar (approx £257m) project.”
Hicks Holdings’ development partners on this project are Steiner +Associates, and the statement says that S+A have “been unable to secure a firm and final commitment from an anchor department store.” It’s reported in the Dallas media that S+A have been in lengthy discussions with Dillard’s department stores.
Now, the statement says, “The developers do not plan to exercise a May 15, 2008 option to extend a letter of commitment to underwrite bonds for roads and parking garages. As a result, construction mobilization will not begin this spring as planned.”
Tom Hicks is quoted in the statement: “We have put an enormous amount of time and money into Glorypark. In the end, the dream can’t become reality without the right financial package. We will pursue alternative funding options and examine our reprogramming options.”
Hicks compared it to another project he was a partner in, the Victory Park project, a similar initiative sighted alongside the American Airlines Center, home of his Dallas Stars NHL side. “This is extremely disappointing to me, personally,” Hicks said. “It’s almost the exact situation we had at Victory when we were ready to go, but the financial markets were in deep trouble after 9/11. That’s when we had to regroup.”
Of the Victory Park project, the statement says: “After two years, Victory did re-emerge although the project has evolved and continues to evolve.” Last week Ross Perot Jr’s company announced their plans to build a 43-storey hotel on the Victory development were being delayed, also due in part to the condition of the financial markets.
Hicks said in the statement that the land between his Texas Rangers baseball stadium and the new Dallas Cowboys stadium would still be developed: “When my family purchased the Rangers, we pledged to invest in a development around the Ballpark. We are still committed to doing that, but we may have to re-examine what should be built and what actually can be built if the market conditions continue.”
Hicks said he contacted Arlington’s mayor, Robert Cluck, about their decision: “These events are in no way related to the City of Arlington. The city did absolutely everything possible to facilitate negotiations while, at the same time, protect the taxpayers’ interests. We all must take the long view for this important piece of real estate between two great sports venues.” The Fort Worth Business Press says: “The city of Arlington has approved several zoning changes to make way for the development and the city had planned to contribute about $135 million through various taxing districts.”
According to Hicks, the developers will now be most likely to concentrate on attracting dining and entertainment businesses to the site: “We have had enormous response from those business segments at Glorypark. I believe reprogramming will produce a plan that is more incremental and includes those elements as well is specialty retail, residential and office components.”
The statement says that Hicks Holdings has invested “almost $50 million into the improvements, design studies, and master planning of the area around the Ballpark.” It also says “plans will continue for the development and opening of the 310-room Westin Hotel and condominium project that was previously announced by Hicks Holdings and Gatehouse Capital. It will be located across Johnson Creek from the new Cowboys stadium.”
Glorypark was due to open in March 2010. The Dallas Morning News talks about how Dallas and the rest of the US have felt the pressures of the current financial environment: “Since last summer, lenders have increased requirements for virtually all types of real estate loans. And some debt sources that previously financed office buildings, hotels, high-rise condos and such have exited the market. The so-called credit crunch is expected to significantly reduce the amount of speculative development this year in Dallas and cities across the nation.”
According to the same paper, this isn’t the first holdup to the project: “The completion of Glorypark, which would have included restaurants, retail, office space and residential, had been delayed at least twice previously.”
As well as needing to raise investment of around £200m (approx $389m) to buy George Gillett’s half of Liverpool FC, Hicks also needs to raise the funds to continue with the building work on the club’s new £300m (approx $584m) stadium, due to open on Stanley Park in 2011. £60m is already in place to commence the work, but the other £240m (approx $467m) still has to be found.
Much can be read into this announcement.
On the one hand it does add weight to the various claims Hicks had been struggling to get finance for his Liverpool FC needs, but on the other hand it suggests the Texan could now be in a stronger position to get the finance for LFC – the total borrowings of the Hicks Holdings group of companies won’t now include this figure in the immediate future.
Again, on the one hand this announcement adds weight to the claims that the US banks Hicks does business with have been looking to call time on his borrowings, but on the other it could be said that recent talk of Hicks approaching hedge funds related to his quest for finance for Glorypark rather than Liverpool FC.
Is it possible Hicks has sacrificed this phase of Glorypark for now in favour of finalising the LFC situation?
The fact remains that Hicks is adamant George Gillett cannot sell without his say-so. This would leave Dubai relying on Hicks hitting financing problems as their only means of getting control of the club. If their assumption turns out to be true then sitting it out could eventually see them take control for the figure they’ve already decided is their top price. But if their assumption is wrong, and they don’t make a substantially higher and tempting bid, George Gillett may just go back on his vow not to sell to his partner rather than sit in this state of limbo for too long.
Further reading:
Star-Telegram – Hicks puts Arlington’s Glorypark development on ice
Fort Worth Business Press – Arlington’s Glorypark development on hold
Dallas Morning News – Arlington will have to wait for Glorypark development near stadiums
further evidence (not assuming the very rosy positive scenarios that jim pointed out) that hicks does not have the financial muscle with the credit markets as tight as they are. but these arent the droids we are looking for, right deputy dog? im moving more towards the very cynical view that hicks and gillett are playing a long-con with DIC, in order to get as much money out of them as possible.
@cory…
…ahh ‘long-con’… a trick Hicks or Gillett probably learned from Sawyer from the lost show…
…then again, why bother… sigh*
LFC once I love is being ‘raped’ vigorously & drags through the mud… make me wonder… should i start ‘paying’ (pun intended) more attention to me missus and kids…
‘read between the lines…’
I do not believe Hicks would sacrifice his Texan developments for Liverpool’s new new stadium, these are his roots don’t forget. He chose to watch the Rangers opening game rather than Liverpool play Arsenal. His loss of face in Texas must be considerable, lets hope it migrates to Liverpool.
jofrad, the guy is a hustler, just on a much bigger scale than the street variety. he makes money, and he loses it too. you have to know, that in the US, its ok to fail as long as you win at least once in a while, which unfortunately hicks does. so dont expect shame to enter into his mental calculus. and i dont think that it is an either/or with Kop Holdings and Glory Park.
Some more updates/quotes on the story here:
Lack of financing puts Arlington’s Glorypark on hold (Dallas Morning News).
What an interesting angle to the story! Are you Alastair Campbell in disguise?
As you would say in Spain, Hoder!!!!
@Jim: On the one hand it does add weight to the various claims Hicks had been struggling to get finance for his Liverpool FC needs, but on the other hand it suggests the Texan could now be in a stronger position to get the finance for LFC – the total borrowings of the Hicks Holdings group of companies won’t now include this figure in the immediate future.
“borrowings” is the right word. Talk about wiping off the debts from LFC by next year!!!
Before I used to be angry and annoyed by Jim ‘writings’. Now they just make me laugh!!!
Cory,
I agree he’s a hustler with absolutley no shame. I’ve said all along he’s a con man but I cannot understand why others don’t see him for what he is. Unfortunately he owns our club and could easily ruin it. No doubt I’ll be accused of being a pessimist but I’m living in the real world.
Thanks for the story and the links Jim.
At last some quotes to get our teeth stuck into _ however worrying.
There are so many lines/exerts in the link above that could relate to our club it’s unbelievable. But like your original story says Jim, it doesn’t mean Hicks is about to cave in to DIC BUT it does mean he’s got an interesting financial and emotional balancing act to perform: cash drying up (to a certain degree) and where to invest (without upsetting those he has ‘promised’ action to).
Can you imagine what his supporters in Dallas – fellow investors, legislators and sports fans – would say if he plumped for LFC over Dallas while leaving a major development – with all its jobs and community issues – in jeopardy. That would take some serious PR to smooth over.
One exert that struck a chord was:
Mr. Hicks said he’ll work on a new, scaled-back version of Glorypark that could be built gradually instead of in large phases. Aside from a 310-room Westin Hotel, it wasn’t clear yet how much of the new Glorypark would be open in time for the 2011 Super Bowl.
This could so easily be our (proposed) stadium. His problem of course is whilst he has so many positive ties in Dallas – due to his long term investment – he has absolutely zero in Liverpool. So if he does try to stitch a deal together for our club – and it will literally be a stitch a time – then it will not be about the Club and the fans as his cosy chat around the fireplace suggested (on Sky Sports News). It will all be about profit and money motivation. The big con – which few believed – will then be over and Mr. Hicks can start having a grown-up conversation with the fans which he has so far failed miserably to do.
Jim, any news from Hicks PR people re. their stance? I would imagine they’ll say nothings changed and Hicks will deliver on his LFC promises. But I’m sure it’s no coincidence that Hicks came out saying LFC stadium work will begin in September (?) knowing full well that this negative news was about to come out. Glad to know the art of spin is still alive and well BUt that the realities of life eventually win out.
So Tom (and friends), thanks for the on-the-record quotes re. your other investments. Now let’s start the big conversation about what you want from our Club.
Love it!!!!!!!!!!!
Uncle toms up shit creek without a paddle as he himself says “these are extreme circumstances” Yet more evidence that uncle tom can’t afford to buy gg out and his other sporting “franchises” are struggling too oh thank you credit crunch praise to you. As i have said all along its just a matter of waiting for dic to step in and buy him/force him out. Interesting to note that the daily mail is reporting we are interested in malouda but it is on the condition we are owned by dic. Does Rafa know something we don’t hence his remarks in the press of late and also the appointment of Sammy Lee would suggest Rafa is planning for the long term.
All we need to do is look at the quotes from your well researched article – thanks for highlighting this to us Jim.
“We have put an enormous amount of time and money into Glorypark. In the end, the dream can’t become reality without the right financial package. We will pursue alternative funding options and examine our reprogramming options.”
Replace GloryPark with New Anfield and we could be three years in the future. Does this man deliver on anything?? Luckily for him with the Stars American Airlines arena he had partners like Perot who obviously knew what they were doing.
“When my family purchased the Rangers, we pledged to invest in a development around the Ballpark. We are still committed to doing that, but we may have to re-examine what should be built and what actually can be built if the market conditions continue.”
Over 10 years ago he took over the Rangers and they promised this development – 10 years ago and still not even close!!
“The completion of Glorypark, which would have included restaurants, retail, office space and residential, had been delayed at least twice previously.”
In those 10 years they have built a new city from the sand in Dubai!!
Is it possible Hicks has sacrificed this phase of Glorypark for now in favour of finalising the LFC situation?
Jim, if this is the case then what kind of a person are we dealing with? Some one who will go back on his promises and leave our club in disarray at the sign of a bigger profit opportunity elsewhere!! I’m sure the people of Texas are delighted that he will sacrifice them in favour of us. And he has ties and roots there. He has none here! He would burn down anfield to get the insurance money.
Calling the Stars arena Victory Park and Rangers arena Glory Park is like Hicks being in control of Coventry for 10 years and calling their arena Triumph Park – talk about hyperbole!!
@midlands-red: The US coverage of this story was at the time of writing limited to the links I put at the end of the article (I wrote it in the early hours of the morning but held it back from being published until around 6.30, just so I could see if any more reaction was forthcoming. The Dallas Stars were playing hockey until around 3.30am UK time, so I figured there could be more quotes a few hours after that). None of it mentioned LFC or the financial issues surrounding LFC. Perhaps by suggesting that this decision is linked to LFC issues it might cause questions to be asked on both sides of the Atlantic – we can hope!
It’s not impossible that scaling down ambitions in Texas could make investment in LFC easier, just like it’s very possible that issues in Texas are going to be mirrored in Liverpool. We don’t know, or won’t know, until a decision one way or other is made here.
They’re talking about ditching retail outlets in favour of entertainment and food outlets, and the hotels still look set to go ahead. LFC’s plans are entertainment, with food and hotels no doubt part of the wider Anfield Plaza aims for a later date. The financial crisis has hit him in two ways on this prject – retailers are seeing themselves in a position where they need to scale down not scale up, and banks aren’t lending as easily as they were. If the retailers were the only issue, he could probably fund incentives to get them to sign up, if banks were the only problem he could probably show them how profitable the retailers will be and get the money! Probably.
Obviously we all know that it’s easy to say one thing and mean another, but the press release suggests that rather than no finance being offered, the finance being offered isn’t at a rate that will be profitable against the likely targets signed up so far. Obviously the percentage of take-up you need in a project like this is tied in with the cost of financing a project like this. It seems those two levels haven’t met each other.
I’m sure that the Hicks camp would say nothing’s changed and that everything’s still on target. I’m sure they’d say that until the very minute either they took GG’s half or sold their own. To be fair, I wouldn’t expect them to reveal now that bottoms were getting squeaky.
Re the claims of the stadium work starting in September or thereabouts, that has actually been the plan since the early spring from what I can tell (and from sources outside of the Hicks camp too). It sticks in my mind because I remember thinking how the construction will have to be done in just under three years, to allow for the various test events and so on that will need to precede the mid-August start of the league season. I think he only mentioned this recently because of the numerous claims the stadium wouldn’t start anytime soon.
But that still doesn’t mean the finance is in place. But at the same time Hicks really has only two choices from what I can see. Find the backers he needs to take control of LFC, including getting the stadium built, or sell to Hicks. Sooner or later one of those decisions needs to be taken (if it hasn’t been already).
Hopefully there’ll be some more quotes today!
Hopefully the start of the end for Hicks at Liverpool but I still cant see him going without the banks forcing him to do so.
Hicks must have know for sometime now that it wasnt looking likely he was going to get the necessary finance for the Glorypark project in Arlington. Yet last week he still announced plans to start work on Liverpools stadium in the autumn.
That to me suggests that he is choosing Liverpool over the Glorypark project. More money to be made from Liverpool. If anything I think Jims point about putting him in a stronger position with regards Liverpool is probably most likley.
And if he is choosing Liverpool over Glorypark I think it would give us a further insight of the type of person he is, if willing to screw his own people for the sake of his investment abroad.
The farce continues…….
The most interesting quote is surely:
“The completion of Glorypark, which would have included restaurants, retail, office space and residential, had been delayed at least twice previously.”
In those 10 years they have built a new city from the sand in Dubai!!
Thus highlighting the financial might of Dubai. No one will touch hicks. This is all playing into dic’s hands and perhaps their plan of sitting and waiting is going to come to fruition.
Quote
“Is it possible Hicks has sacrificed this phase of Glorypark for now in favour of finalising the LFC situation?”
No chance. Since when did soccer become the biggest sport in the US. I can only speak for myself but on my regular trips to the US I can put my hand on my heart and say that the NFL, NBA, MLB are the three most prominent sports. Apart from those you have their Ice Hockey, their silly motorsport where the cars go round and round like a scalextric set (Nascar/Indy series). Soccer comes way way way down the list in their agenda. Just couldn’t forsee the Texas Tycoon elevating LFC’s interests over his other so called franchises in order to appease the Liverpool fans. Looks like DIC are just biding their time till the pressure is too much for Hicks to bear forcing him to come back to the table for discussions.
@Fred: I read the Malouda Mail story as far as the words “But reports in The Sun” before clicking “back”. A search shows that the BBC and other site’s gossip columns are claiming the story came from that rag.
Remember – Don’t buy The Sun!
If it’s mentioned elsewhere without referencing back to that particular piece of filfth then I’ll be interested, but for now I’d rather just ignore it completely.
And if it turns out to be true, I hope whoever told that rag about the story is not one of those who actually expects to be involved at Anfield in the future. I hope whoever they are dealing with at Anfield puts them right.
It’s quite an important boycott, and not too difficult to stick to really.
(I was browsing the comments on here recently and noticed a poster had actually linked to that rag. I hope that people read the link above and understand why we still stick so rigidly to the boycott after all these years).
@Gurdeep: I see your point Gurdeep but does it still apply if Hicks is the mainly profit-driven soul he’s painted as? If sport is just a way of making money, would it be a surprise if he chose the most profitable one if forced to ditch one? (That’s assuming LFC would be the most profitable.) Does it have to be purely to appease Liverpool fans?
I’m not saying what’s right or wrong, I’m trying to say what’s possible or otherwise.
And DIC biding their time until Hicks has used up all his options is of course a very likely scenario. If their top price is literally their final immovable price, they might as well wait and see how close he gets to getting the finance. If they’ve a little more to offer then they might as well wait until they think it’s the prime time to offer it.
It certainly makes business sense to sell some of his other interests to fund his bid for LFC if the net result would be more profit than selling LFC.
I’m not saying he’s doing that by the way.
pretty damning quote:
“Dr. Cluck said that despite a long history of talk – and no action – about a major retail development around the ballpark, he’s confident that Mr. Hicks will make this project work.”
see chris bascombes prescient article from last year before the season started:
Turn the clock back – we’ve got to move on
Jun 9 2007
by Chris Bascombe, Liverpool Echo
NARCOTIC experts will be required to maintain a careful watch over Melwood and Anfield for the
next two months.
It’s rumoured a consignment of chill pills are heading this way. How badly they’re needed. The
tetchiness epidemic has spread since the end of the season.
While those charged with running our clubs talk about working tirelessly to make the signings to
compete for the Premiership, the manager and supporters anxiously wait news of the delivery of
promises.
Pre-season often feels like nothing more than a series of cut and paste jobs of interviews and
stories which have been read many summers before.
Liverpool are undoubtedly at another crossroads.
If they don’t act to strengthen the squad with world class players, you can predict how the next
12 months will go.
The trend at this time of the year is to review how the last campaign has gone. Instead, how
about a preview of what we can expect in the next few months if the proverbial fingers don’t
come out?
June/ July: Liverpool continue to pursue several top-class targets, working tirelessly behind the
scenes to make the deals happen, while manager Rafa Benitez’s mood switches from deeply
frustrated to content depending on the levels of reassurance following phone calls from the
owners. Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto’o are spotted touring the club museum. Harry Kewell
picks up a niggling injury. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium
plans.
August: Concerns are raised about why Liverpool have jetted to Hong Kong a week before a
crucial Champions League qualifier. Meanwhile, as the transfer deadline approaches Benitez is
still waiting for the arrival of a key player. He ends up working until midnight on August 31
trying to negotiate a deal, but it doesn’t happen.
Elsewhere, it goes unnoticed in the small print regarding Champions League ticket allocation
that fans must have attended at least four reserve games at Wrexham’s Racecourse in order to
qualify for a cup final seat should the Reds get that far. A key council meeting is held to discuss
Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
September: After a slow start to the Premiership campaign, the first in a series of articles
appears complaining that the previous summer was a ‘missed opportunity’ as Liverpool already
trail Manchester United and Chelsea by ten points. A key council meeting is held to discuss
icLiverpool http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/printable_version.cfm?objectid=1...
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Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
October: Rafa Benitez is condemned for playing an under-strength team in the Carling Cup. The
Daily Mail describes the club’s performance as ‘the worst in 40 years’ and asks what Benitez has
ever done other than win the Champions League and the FA Cup in his first two seasons. Two
days later the Reds beat Real Madrid in the Bernabeu. A key council meeting is held to discuss
Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
November: Liverpool qualify for the knockout stages of the Champions League with a game to
spare prompting UEFA spokesman William Gaillard to describe this year’s competition as
undoubtedly the worst ever, listing 25 incidents of poor ball control in the last three weeks.
Gaillard is sacked by Michel Platini and replaced with someone who’ll be less insulting about
Liverpool. Neville Neville says he’s deeply honoured to accept the job. A key council meeting is
held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
December: Tom Hicks tells Liverpool fans they’ll be ‘very excited’ by the signings the club will
be making when the January transfer window opens. Benitez signs an Eastern European on a
pre-contract Bosman deal ahead of next season, but doesn’t make much fuss about it because
he ain’t much good. Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto’o are spotted touring the club museum. A
key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
January: Liverpool sign a full back for £2.5m. He’ll be sold in January, 2009 for the same price.
Fans demanding new faces are urged to be more patient. Benitez works until midnight on
January 31 trying to sign his prime target but negotiations stall. A key council meeting is held to
discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
February: Real Madrid sack their manager and make an official approach for Benitez.
The Liverpool boss is known to be increasingly frustrated by the lack of progress and funds. A
key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
March: The FA Cup and Champions League continues to offer hope Liverpool will win silverware
this season. After another heroic European night at Anfield, the 12th man of The Kop is praised
as being the difference. UEFA announces a generous 10,000 tickets each for this year’s finalists.
A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
April: Liverpool secure their top four place, qualifying for next season’s Champions League.
Harry Kewell makes his return from injury. A team bonding session in La Manga ends in
acrimony when a stray golfer hits John Arne Riise with a football. Executive box holders are
assured they won’t be put into a ballot for cup final tickets because they’ve paid £40,000 more
than season ticket holders for priority so are therefore proven to be more loyal.
May: Tom Hicks tells Liverpool fans they’ll be ‘very excited’ by the signings the club will be
making in the summer. Benitez announces with deepest regret he’ll be joining Real Madrid. A
Liverpool website asks the club whether it is possible to hoist aloft a Kop mosaic during the final
home game, but instead of organising an emotional farewell to Benitez they choose to thank
former director Terry Smith for his long service to the club. A key council meeting is held to
discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
June: Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto’o can’t even be bothered to visit the club museum. It
emerges Liverpool’s new stadium plans are considered out of date and a fresh planning
application will be made. It’s now scheduled to open in 2015. Liverpool fans are told to be
patient as they yearn for new signings.
“There’s a lot of hard work going on behind the scenes,” says a club statement.
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A nightmare prediction of the 2007/08 campaign? Or an abbreviation of sorts of the last 12
months?
Either way, we all need a holiday to let a season’s cynicism to drip out. See you in a few
weeks.
Top
sound familiar?
“Mr. Hicks said he’ll work on a new, scaled-back version of Glorypark that could be built gradually instead of in large phases. Aside from a 310-room Westin Hotel, it wasn’t clear yet how much of the new Glorypark would be open in time for the 2011 Super Bowl.”
Jim – I do not think that it has put Hicks in a stronger position, I think his position is much weaker. Today Barclays have written of 1 billion and yesterday I think it was HSBC written of about 1.3 billion. It just said on radio city that this could be extremely bad new for LFC’s new stadium plans. I do not think that anyone is in a strong position at the moment. I think that time is running out for Hick’s. We will probably hear in the news over the next couple of days how this might affect the LFC situation.
Some of you guys don’t realise that whoever takes over will do so via funding. DIC will not be any different then Hicks … in the business world, very little personal money is ever invested, its always via loans … thats business.
I have no favourite regarding who owns the club … as long as the new anfield gets built and our manager gets decent transfer funds … I’m happy!
I do think we need to be careful about wishing bad on Hicks and forcing him out could have a very negative effect on the club, so be careful what you guys wish for
I work hard to see the positive and for me I see this as nothing more then an issue in america regarding the another project and the effects of the credit cruch which they are feeling a lot more then we are …. what happens in the US does not mean it will have a direct effect on this project, and when you consider the banks expect us to be worth 800 million after the new ground is built, they will loan the money as the return will be secured!!! my comments are part assumptions but so are everyone elses …. why we take so much time to diss our owners i don’t understand …. they gave rafa everything he wanted last summer/january (rafa’s words) the ground is going ahead …. so far we are going in the right direct, if things do start to go wrong, then we can make every effort to remove the problem then, right now the only problem is peoples opinions …… lets chill and if Hicks is to go, he will go naturally, if he stays and provides us with a new ground and funds to challenge the top 3 … what have we got to complain about?
my priority over the last 40 years has always been the team and success ….. if Hicks gets in the way of that, then out he goes … but right now he has done a fair bit to help Rafa succeed!
I suggest we wait and see what sort of money rafa gets to spend …. if its not reasonable then we have a right to demand Hicks sells up and there are ways for us to help that happen, until then this all feels more like a witch-hunt … lots of stories being made up etc …
reikirebel
” At the weekend, and despite his ongoing civil war with co-owner George Gillett, Hicks insisted work on Liverpool’s new £300m stadium will get under way this autumn. But one leading city source told the ECHO this now seems highly unlikely.
He said: “If anything, it is now harder to get this kind of project off the ground in this country than it would be in the USA.
“For a start, interest rates in the UK are currently double what they are in the USA – they stand at 2.5% there compared to 5% here.
“That makes borrowing money much more expensive on this side of the Atlantic, particularly for large scale capital projects such as building a new stadium.
“Also, lenders are asking borrowers to put down substantially more in terms of equity than they were a year ago. That is one of the main reasons why borrowing has become more difficult.
“Finally, you also have to factor in the rising price of commodities which will inevitably have an impact on the cost of a new stadium.”
A London based spokesman for Hicks today said of the situation at Anfield: “The stadium proceeds to plan.” ”
This is a reason why he will not be able to fund the stadium or will not want to fund the stadium because of the interest rates he will be charged.
Here’s the link
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/05/15/liverpool-fc-co-owner-tom-hicks-hit-by-credit-crunch-blow-100252-20914232/
Turn the clock back – we’ve got to move on
Jun 9 2007
by Chris Bascombe, Liverpool Echo
NARCOTIC experts will be required to maintain a careful watch over Melwood and Anfield for the next two months. It’s rumoured a consignment of chill pills are heading this way. How badly they’re needed. The tetchiness epidemic has spread since the end of the season. While those charged with running our clubs talk about working tirelessly to make the signings to compete for the Premiership, the manager and supporters anxiously wait news of the delivery of promises.
Pre-season often feels like nothing more than a series of cut and paste jobs of interviews and stories which have been read many summers before.
Liverpool are undoubtedly at another crossroads.
If they don’t act to strengthen the squad with world class players, you can predict how the next 12 months will go.
The trend at this time of the year is to review how the last campaign has gone. Instead, how about a preview of what we can expect in the next few months if the proverbial fingers don’t come out?
June/ July: Liverpool continue to pursue several top-class targets, working tirelessly behind the scenes to make the deals happen, while manager Rafa Benitez’s mood switches from deeply frustrated to content depending on the levels of reassurance following phone calls from the owners. Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto’o are spotted touring the club museum. Harry Kewell picks up a niggling injury. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
August: Concerns are raised about why Liverpool have jetted to Hong Kong a week before a crucial Champions League qualifier. Meanwhile, as the transfer deadline approaches Benitez is still waiting for the arrival of a key player. He ends up working until midnight on August 31 trying to negotiate a deal, but it doesn’t happen.
Elsewhere, it goes unnoticed in the small print regarding Champions League ticket allocation that fans must have attended at least four reserve games at Wrexham’s Racecourse in order to qualify for a cup final seat should the Reds get that far. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
September: After a slow start to the Premiership campaign, the first in a series of articles appears complaining that the previous summer was a ‘missed opportunity’ as Liverpool already trail Manchester United and Chelsea by ten points. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
October: Rafa Benitez is condemned for playing an under-strength team in the Carling Cup. The Daily Mail describes the club’s performance as ‘the worst in 40 years’ and asks what Benitez has ever done other than win the Champions League and the FA Cup in his first two seasons. Two days later the Reds beat Real Madrid in the Bernabeu. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
November: Liverpool qualify for the knockout stages of the Champions League with a game to spare prompting UEFA spokesman William Gaillard to describe this year’s competition as undoubtedly the worst ever, listing 25 incidents of poor ball control in the last three weeks. Gaillard is sacked by Michel Platini and replaced with someone who’ll be less insulting about Liverpool. Neville Neville says he’s deeply honoured to accept the job. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
December: Tom Hicks tells Liverpool fans they’ll be ‘very excited’ by the signings the club will be making when the January transfer window opens. Benitez signs an Eastern European on a pre-contract Bosman deal ahead of next season, but doesn’t make much fuss about it because he ain’t much good. Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto’o are spotted touring the club museum. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
January: Liverpool sign a full back for £2.5m. He’ll be sold in January, 2009 for the same price. Fans demanding new faces are urged to be more patient. Benitez works until midnight on January 31 trying to sign his prime target but negotiations stall. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
February: Real Madrid sack their manager and make an official approach for Benitez.
The Liverpool boss is known to be increasingly frustrated by the lack of progress and funds. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
March: The FA Cup and Champions League continues to offer hope Liverpool will win silverware this season. After another heroic European night at Anfield, the 12th man of The Kop is praised as being the difference. UEFA announces a generous 10,000 tickets each for this year’s finalists. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
April: Liverpool secure their top four place, qualifying for next season’s Champions League. Harry Kewell makes his return from injury. A team bonding session in La Manga ends in acrimony when a stray golfer hits John Arne Riise with a football. Executive box holders are assured they won’t be put into a ballot for cup final tickets because they’ve paid £40,000 more than season ticket holders for priority so are therefore proven to be more loyal.
May: Tom Hicks tells Liverpool fans they’ll be ‘very excited’ by the signings the club will be making in the summer. Benitez announces with deepest regret he’ll be joining Real Madrid. A Liverpool website asks the club whether it is possible to hoist aloft a Kop mosaic during the final home game, but instead of organising an emotional farewell to Benitez they choose to thank former director Terry Smith for his long service to the club. A key council meeting is held to discuss Liverpool’s new stadium plans.
June: Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto’o can’t even be bothered to visit the club museum. It emerges Liverpool’s new stadium plans are considered out of date and a fresh planning application will be made. It’s now scheduled to open in 2015. Liverpool fans are told to be patient as they yearn for new signings.
“There’s a lot of hard work going on behind the scenes,” says a club statement.
A nightmare prediction of the 2007/08 campaign? Or an abbreviation of sorts of the last 12
months?
Either way, we all need a holiday to let a season’s cynicism to drip out. See you in a few
weeks.
Jim, as you know, I have said for some time that there is little or no funding or lender trust left in the present market.
Perhaps Hicks is trying his best but not getting anywhere – credit to him for effort and endeavour. Unfortunately there is a liquidity squeeze and unless he is able or prepared to dip into his own pockets to back up his words to, lenders/financiers are just not interested. The lenders do not trust each other let own private entities looking to borrow.
The Bank of England is reasonably concerned so much that they have offered funding backed up against securities which the lenders have (shocking that we tax payers will end up paying for the high risk table dealings of Northern Rock et al).
Merv King has said for some time that there would be market correction and recently stated that the pendulum had swung too far the other way (this appears to my favourite phrase for some reason!) in that from a position where lenders were openly lending, they are not lending at all/sparingly. He has now come out and said that the situation will get worse.
If you are ever in possession of some spare time and wish to suffer chronic tedium just read the monthly board minutes from the Monetary Committee which sets/deals with interest rates.
In all, I really can not see him prioritising on LFC over his long term interests back in the US.
@ reikirebel – I praise your efforts at trying to see positives but due to the following, amongst other reasons, I do not agree with you:
1. It is a well known and fully practicised mantra that when America sneeze the rest catch a cold” In today’s market we really cannot view each economy in isolation.
2. There continue to misgivings with our current owners both jointly and individually. I would not do any justice to the countless points made and perhaps you would kindly read up from the archives on this blog.
Great posts Midland Red @ 9.49am and Cory @ 11.29am
reikirebel – have you been on a desert island for the last 12 months?? Talk about not having a clue about what is going on!!
” I work hard to see the positive and for me I see this as nothing more then an issue in america regarding the another project and the effects of the credit cruch which they are feeling a lot more then we are …. what happens in the US does not mean it will have a direct effect on this project, and when you consider the banks expect us to be worth 800 million after the new ground is built, they will loan the money as the return will be secured!!! my comments are part assumptions but so are everyone elses …. ”
reikirebel – The banks are not lending people money out of choice, there is a liquidity crises which is meaning that it is very dificult to come by the money to lend. Banks are on an almost daily basis writting off billions of pounds sterling. The Bank of England is pumping money into the banks to help with the liquidity crisis and both the Bank of England and the Chancellor of the Excheqor are both predicting that the country is going into a recession. Also you only need to have a very basic knowledge of economics to know that whatever happens in th USA affects everyone else in the world such is the size of the American Economy. The American Economy is the powerhouse for the worlds economy. The saying goes ‘if America sneezes then the rest of the world gets a cold’.
Despite all the uncertainty, we’ve all got to be pleased that sooner (and hopefully not later) it’s all coming to a head.
Hicks will know that this news will create ructions with journos, fans and of course Gillett and DIC. He will also know that he’ll need a response that does not jeopardise his franchise investment – sorry, the club.
If you’re DIC – who will have ties in the US as well as leaked news from Gillett – they will have a pretty good idea of how Hicks is doing. But of course, IF it’s bad the time is approaching where they will have to put up or call it all off.
If you’re Gillett – it’s simply a win-win IF, and i accept Jim’s points, Hicks is in financial difficulty because we’re led to believe Gillett is not. He’ll bargain for a better deal, should DIC still be really interested. And I believe they are.
If you’re Hicks, you play hardball and claim that all’s well in the garden. Although he has a few timelines to keep to in order to see how much cash and/or new investors he has.
Jim, any ideas on what the key timelines actually are? Ie September – stadium. When does he need to show us/the bankers the money?
The only people who seem to be doing well out of the current world economic conditions are the oil states such as Dubai. As a result of the high price of oil the oil rich states are rolling in money. ‘Swimming in it’.
In light of the questions and issues raised by the Glorypark delay, I wonder if the other parties to exert new pressures on Hicks and Kop Holdings will be the Liverpool municipal government/councils and any national agencies who are signed on to contribute grants and tax incentives for the New Anfield. Surely Kop Holdings will need to demonstrate the financial capacity to complete the project before receiving public money. If Hicks is reneging on major development commitments in Texas (where the bulk of his empire sits), he’s either truly squeezed or else blackmailing the Arlington and Texas state governments to contribute more financial “assistance” (much like the auto manufacturers do – hey, government, give us millions of dollars/pounds or we’ll close our doors and throw all those poor people out of work).
Also, if Gillett is punching above his weight, and trying to bully DIC into paying more for his shares, this will put him in the same position (that is, needing to prove that he can provide stable collateral to support Kop Holdings’s growing debt) as he will be equally affected by the credit crunch – though that being said, I don’t think his greed has him extending his real estate empire to near the same extent as Hicks. Gillett was the one rumoured to be stretched the tightest when the Kop Holdings debt was refinanced the beginning of this year, and that alone may give DIC extra leverage if he’s now playing tough guy.
@Reikirebel
“Some of you guys don’t realise that whoever takes over will do so via funding. DIC will not be any different then Hicks … in the business world, very little personal money is ever invested, its always via loans … thats business.”
“if things do start to go wrong, then we can make every effort to remove the problem then, right now the only problem is peoples opinions”
I’m sorry reikerebel but i agree with Stephen, your 365 day adventure in Mongolia has certainly left you out of the loop.
Fans are more concerned with the general running of the club and it’s reputation than the type of investment, Tom Hicks has certainly had his chance, he rode in on a white horse, i pray he’s going to be on his way out via a boot up the arse.
This is how I’ve taken this news…the bad scenario is particularly chilling!
This is bad and good news for LFC.
Good: Hicks may have to sell up to DIC or other investors, and surely no one will be worse than Tom.
Bad: Hicks doesn’t have enough money to build anything, but has enough money to keep LFC, Meaning we’re stuck in this situation for even longer. As it’s been proven, fan pressure certainly doesn’t affect this man, he cares about the pot of golf at the end of the rainbow and not for the poor leprechauns he’s stealing it off.
Julie,
I don’t belive that Gillett is playing the tough guy with DIC at the same time hosting them as his chosen guests at Liverpool’s matches. I think the deal is waiting to be done between Gillett and DIC. Hicks is the problem, lets hope this credit crunch finishes him with Liverpool.
You’re right, however, about the public finances for the regeneration of the Anfield area, surely the powers that be should be at least asking a few questions now.
Jofrad: you’re right – I’d forgotten about Gillett inviting DIC as his guests to the CL semi-finals.
Here’s a question for the business/money/legal minds out there…
Put aside for a moment the issues of how much it would cost for one partner to buy out the shares of the other, and also how much debt is currently on the books for Kop Holdings. Also assume that the cost of the New Anfield is £300m and that there really is a bag of money sitting in the Anfield boardroom filled with 60 million one-pound coins for the stadium start-up.
Okay. Exactly how much money would Hicks or Gillett need from their own empires to secure enough borrowed money to start the stadium? Figuring that this borrowed money would be further secured as work on the stadium proceded (as a rolling form of capital, from the limited amount of this I understand), and factoring in the nervousness of lending institutions both in the UK and US, what is the minimum that either would have to demonstrate that they could bring to the table to ensure that the project could proceed without interruption?
Just a couple of very quick responses…
The grants – off the top of my head, weren’t they all for the non-stadium work? Obviously the stadium got planning permission on condition the non-stadium work was done in the park, so we needed those grants, but we didn’t get the money for the grants as such. I may be wrong on this, I’m going off memory and at my age that’s not a wise thing to do. I may be wrong on this, I’m going off memory and at my age that’s not a wise thing to do.
I seriously can’t see Hicks sticking around if he can’t get the stadium built.
Naming rights are rarely mentioned. Obviously anyone can predict a top-end figure and a low-end figure for such a deal depending on how they want to use that figure. Trying to get finance for a new ground? Go high. Trying to be cautious as to how much you lend out for a new ground? Go low.
Arsenal’s Emirate’s deal was inclusive of shirt sponsorship, figures up to £100m, I think over 20 years were quoted. New York Mets got 400m dollars over 20 years. The New York Giants / New York Jets deal could be worth up to 600m dollars over 20 years.
Different markets, different financial climates, obviously we can sit here all day listing reasons why LFC naming rights wouldn’t be so good, but who can genuinely be sure, unless they’ve already gone out looking for those deals? Is the credit crunch going to go on for 3 years? If Hicks can find a way to afford the finance now until opening time, can he then get a deal that will cover the biggest part of the stadium finance?
Some links I found earlier…
http://www.karen-earl.co.uk/insideinfo.cfm?action=view&id=318
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=63386&sid=2&fid=1
I have just heard on the channel 4 news a statement by the FSA (financal services authority) that the credit crunch for the banks (which was described as phase 2 of the credit crunch) has passed i.e. we are through that. we are no into phase three. The man from the FSA expained that what this stage was an end to all cheap credit. There would be no more 100% mortgages and the so on so fourth and the such like. So I do not think that banks will be writting of more money. Tom Hicks may not be able to get a loan at a rate which will be attractive to him or even financily feasable for him to accept. A difference between 2.5% and 5% is a big difference. For example:
If you have mortgage and you pay back 400 per month at an interest rate of 4%, and then there is an increase in the interest of 1% that you have to pay. 1% of the £400 at 4% interest means that you will have to pay an extra £100 per month. So your monthly repayments increase to £500 per month.
Julie; First of all, the boardroom would have to be very big to accomodate £60m £1.00 coins….;)
The figures that I keep coming across time and again is upto 80% lending maximum. The better deals are at 70% with 30% personal funding. This applies to both residential as well as commercial lending. I hasten to add that these are based on the documents that come my way rather than me making enquiries or applications for clients (which I am not legally authorised to do).
waters are muddied when you try and quantify what the value is of the purchase is. It will be less if you just count brick and mortar but probably more if you capitalise on the non-property aspect.
erm…I don’t think I have answered your question have I? sorry.
Arsenal are looking at Kroenke again!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/15/arsenal
Hicks as a minority shareholder (25%) as a solution?
Julie (Toronto) – The man from the FSA said that the would be no more cheap credit as a result of the credit crunch, he also said that there would not be any more 100% mortgages. So I think the very least that a bank would give you is 90% according to what the man from the FSA said. Raju has said that he is hearing reports of 80% and 90% be banded around. I think also which will be a major factor in the matter is the interest rate that will come with the loan, it may work out to be far to high to be financially feasable.
” Raju has said that he is hearing reports of 80% and 90% be banded around. ”
Should read-
” Raju has said that he is hearing reports of 80% and 70% be banded around. ”
Edward – Is that a fact about Hicks or a question?
Based on todays news what would be the consequences for Liverpool FC if DIC were to say that they had waited long enough and had decided not to pursue any further interest in buying the club?
I know its hypotethical but the way things have gone to date its a scenario I would not be surprised to see us in.
Would it possibly have any major effect on Hicks / Gillett and or dealings with the banks?
Anthony,
I was just floating the idea! A compromise solution !
Juan, I am amazed that DIC are still interested in us after all the shit that has gone on. Unless us fans can manage to take the club over we would be in a very serious position if DIC pulled out.
We can forget about competing with the top four as it is obvious we will have no money to pay for new players. The teams below us such as Spurs, Villa Newcastle etc can put all their TV money etc into their teams where as all our money, judging on the last 18months, will go into financing the stadium and H&G’s interest.
I really think we are in a very bleak position. Hedge funds, short term loans, high interest rates no cashflow etc.
I think the fact that we have all become financial experts shows us what a disaster the last 18 months have been.
Absolutely bang on Stephen, DIC must really want to own the club to be still interested. To repeat myself I think they have a real feeling for Liverpool and I for one will be delighted if they succeed in their efforts. I think they will prove to be ideal owners .
I’m also delighted that all Tom Hicks’ chickens appear to be coming home to roost. Cluck cluck !
One for Deputy Dawg when he reappears.
“Hicks in stadium vow
New ground to be ready for 2011.
Last updated: 11th May 2008
Hicks: Stadium plans on track
Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks has assured fans that work on the club’s new Stanley Park stadium will go ahead as planned.
There have been constant doubts surrounding the proposed move to a new 60,000 – seat stadium at Stanley Park because of finances and the unrest in the Anfield boardroom between Hicks and co-owner George Gillett.
Liverpool City Council gave the green light for the new ground last week after granting planning permission and Hicks says work will begin in September and be open for 2011.
“Site work will start in September and actual construction in late October/early November, with completion in time for the season starting in August 2011,” Hicks told the Sunday Mirror.”
AND THREE DAYS LATER:-
“Hicks hit by credit blow
May 15 2008 Liverpool Echo
LIVERPOOL co-owner Tom Hicks was today forced to abandon plans for a multi million dollar development in Dallas because of the credit crunch – sparking major concerns over his finances and ambitions for Anfield.
Hicks had been planning to build “Glorypark”, a mixed used development in Dallas featuring retail, residential and office space due to open in March 2010 at a cost of £257m.
But early today the Texan released a statement confirming fears that his ambitious plans are not sustainable in the current market.
The move will inevitably increase fears that Hicks will not be able to put the funding in place to build a new stadium on Stanley Park for Liverpool, particularly with the UK currently enduring increasingly tough economic conditions which Bank of England chief Mervyn King has admitted could even turn into a recession.
Official Liverpool Supporters Club secretary Les Lawson told the ECHO today’s developments will be of concern to all Reds fans.
He said: “When Hicks took over at Anfield he said a spade would go into the ground at Stanley Park within 60 days – 18 months on we are still waiting.”
I totally agree with Jofrad.
Surely with DIC still interested it puts more and more pressure on hicks and gg as the banks will want them to sell to DIC. DIC are the ones making money at the moment with the oil prices rocketing where as hicks and gg are losing money on interest payments etc. Do we want owners with no money and a begging bowl or owners with money. I don’t think anyone who is pro DIC expects them to be a sugar daddy but they do have the financial muscle to ensure our future and to build a stadium. hicks and gg simply do not have that.
Very true Fred.
If Hicks or Gilette had the type of money Liverpool needs this whole situation wouldnt exist in the first place
GLORYPARK TIMELINE
1991 — Arlington voters approve a half-cent sales tax to build a baseball stadium; supporters say the stadium will spur development on nearby property.
1998 — Tom Hicks purchases the Texas Rangers and puts together plans for nearby development.
May 2006 — The project is unveiled as Glorypark, a town center expected to open in fall 2008.
May 2007 — Arlington City Council approves $135 million in bonds to pay for parking garages and road improvements for the project; the agreement creates a tax-increment finance zone that will repay the bonds.
January 2008 — Glorypark announces its first tenant, iPic Entertainment, a combination movie theater, bowling alley, restaurant, bar and live-act venue.
May 2008 — Glorypark is put on indefinite hold.
Says it all really – Am I a pessimist or a realist ?
Jofrad – You are definitely a rapist!
LOL
Can you imagine what his supporters in Dallas – fellow investors, legislators and sports fans – would say if he plumped for LFC over Dallas while leaving a major development – with all its jobs and community issues – in jeopardy. That would take some serious PR to smooth over.
LOL!
Midlands… this won’t mean much to you, but: it’s Arlington. Maybe Cory can fill you in.
@Texas_Dawg is that all you’ve got to say!?
You and your friends must be feeling the pressure
Ridiculous.
When all is said and done we just can’t trust this man to deliver on the promises he made and the things that LFC need to be better.
I fear that this could be dragged out for a while longer. If no 90 day clause exists and assuming Hicks fights until the bitter end then it won’t be resolved anytime soon.
sigh.
Irrespective of their own negative attributes… DIC in.
No chance. Since when did soccer become the biggest sport in the US. I can only speak for myself but on my regular trips to the US I can put my hand on my heart and say that the NFL, NBA, MLB are the three most prominent sports. Apart from those you have their Ice Hockey, their silly motorsport where the cars go round and round like a scalextric set (Nascar/Indy series). Soccer comes way way way down the list in their agenda. Just couldn’t forsee the Texas Tycoon elevating LFC’s interests over his other so called franchises in order to appease the Liverpool fans. Looks like DIC are just biding their time till the pressure is too much for Hicks to bear forcing him to come back to the table for discussions.
Gurdeep,
I’ve been a Texas Rangers fan all my life. I couldn’t care less if GloryPark is built or not. No Texas Rangers fans care one bit about this. It’s a commercial development in the middle of a field near the stadium. The only people that care are the people that stand to benefit from it financially. It has nothing to do with the state of the team.
C’mon Dawg, what’s going on?!? (not rhetorical). If Hicks can’t guarantee to deliver on what we need, then he needs to get out of here.
Dawg – Isn’t Arlington where all the presidents get burried?
Reading Texas Dowg’s posts gives us into look into the world of fans of Hicks’ sports teams. Passionless drones who spirit has been broken by years of mismanagement. God help us if we ever reach those levels.
Stephen – Or brain dead idiots who don’t know what they are talking about and just follow Hick’s blindly.
raju/Anthony: The reason I posed the question is that if we’re debating the consequences of Hicks being unable to progress with one of his other developments, and coming to the conclusion that the start of new stadium construction will be in peril, I wondered just how much money he’d need to have in his pocket and put on the table to prove he could follow through on the Fall 2008 start date. It’s easy to say, oh, well, he obviously doesn’t have the money to build the New Anfield if the credit crunch is squeezing him that badly, but it occurred to me that I don’t know just how much money he would need to come with on his own to trigger the ground being broken.
If lending institutions are willing to ante up around 80% (by raju’s informed estimation) or thereabouts, and the stadium will cost £300m, then he would have to chip in 20% of £300m – £60m or roughly $120m US. This number assumes that he would be sole owner, and to realize that he would also need to come up with another $400m US for Gillett’s shares. By these very rough calculations, in Hicks’s own model of ownership, then, he needs to supply $520m US of debt-free assets – over half a billion dollars – out of his own holdings for building of the stadium to proceed.
Excuse my lack of manners while I snort in skepticism.
raju: I kind of like the image of the Anfield boardroom stuffed to the rafters with canvas bags full of 60 million one-pound coins. If nothing else, it certainly brings into perspective just how much money that number really represents.
Julie (Toronto) – You are also missing the £200 million to buy out GG. So altogether it would be about £500 million. He may have to find either £50 million or £100 million. The banks are also asking for more colateral than they usualy would so your estimate of $520 is also to low. On top of that he would also have to pay a high APR on the loan. I think in the current climate it will not be financially feasable for LFC to operate in a competitve manner with the debts Hicks will put on the club.
Julie (Toronto) – You did include the money to buy out GG, but the security that he would have to provide to the banks will be alot more than usual.
C’mon Dawg, what’s going on?!? (not rhetorical). If Hicks can’t guarantee to deliver on what we need, then he needs to get out of here.
Let me put it to you this way, Martin…
I was on the Dallas Morning News website this morning reading about the Rangers game yesterday. I was also reading the local news while there. The first I learned of this GloryPark news was here. It’s not even front-page news in Dallas. If you asked the first 100 fans walking into the Rangers game tomorrow night was “Glory Park” is… you might get one who knew what you were talking about.
LFC’s stadium is directly tied to its financial status. LFC is a highly valuable asset, in good times and bad. There are all kinds of groups that would be interested in such a project. This? It’s Arlington, Texas. A glorified shopping mall, irrelevant to the team’s finances, next to a stadium built in the middle of a cow pasture. In the middle of a market downturn.
Hicks has deals come and go all the time. But this Arlington deal and LFC’s stadium are apples and oranges.
Dawg – Isn’t Arlington where all the presidents get burried?
No, Anthony. That’s Arlington, Virginia.
Reading Texas Dowg’s posts gives us into look into the world of fans of Hicks’ sports teams. Passionless drones who spirit has been broken by years of mismanagement. God help us if we ever reach those levels.
Stephen,
Why should a Texas Rangers fans care one bit about the owner’s plans for a shopping mall next to where the team plays?
Dawg – Because the UK is so small we only have one of each name over here i.e. there is only one Liverpool in the UK. How many Liverpools are their in the USA? More than one. Did you know that the state Virginia was named after Queen Elizabeth the First? She was called the virgin queen so someone decided to name the state after her! Fascinating or what, she was Henry the Eigths daughter. Where are you decended from.
Dawg – Also how old r u?
I know, Anthony.
And I’m 30; descended from immigrants to the US in the 1700s, from Germany, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.
Absolutely bang on Stephen, DIC must really want to own the club to be still interested.
Can’t the same be said of Hicks then, Jofrad?
Dawg – They probably left for the USA via Liverpool. I’m 30 as well.
Dawg – I used to go to the same school as John Lennon and I live opposite Ringo stars old school.
” Jofrad // May 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm
One for Deputy Dawg when he reappears.
“Hicks in stadium vow
New ground to be ready for 2011.
Last updated: 11th May 2008
Hicks: Stadium plans on track
Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks has assured fans that work on the club’s new Stanley Park stadium will go ahead as planned.
There have been constant doubts surrounding the proposed move to a new 60,000 – seat stadium at Stanley Park because of finances and the unrest in the Anfield boardroom between Hicks and co-owner George Gillett.
Liverpool City Council gave the green light for the new ground last week after granting planning permission and Hicks says work will begin in September and be open for 2011.
“Site work will start in September and actual construction in late October/early November, with completion in time for the season starting in August 2011,” Hicks told the Sunday Mirror.” ”
Jofrad – We are also still waiting for Snoogy Doogy to sign for us. He sounds like a good player, he might be the difference between first and second next season.
Seems Mr. Dawg’s on the defensive.
Just hang-in there Texas_Dawg, your hero may yet get the cash together to buy the club. Wouldn’t be in our interests but at least Hicks can enjoy making money. At least he’ll be happy, if not us.
Should he not get the cash together, good riddance to all the drama!
Back to transfers I think. The ownership saga looks set to drag on for another while. Here’s ITVs take:
“But Gillett, having made it clear he will not sell his 50% stake in the club to his partner, significantly flew to London last week for informal talks with DIC.
It has emerged that are unlikely to test the validity in court of Hicks’ veto over any move by Gillett to sell his stake. Problems over certain clauses in the original contracts have arisen which make such a move difficult.
However, few observers now expect the troubled ownership of Liverpool to be resolved this summer, with the saga likely to drag on into the autumn.
Under the current proposals, the stadium work should have started by then. ”
*http://www.itv-football.co.uk/story/0,19239,6145_3568818,00.html
@Julie (Toronto): The first £60m for the stadium is in place already. If I’m not mistaken it’s enough to clear the area of trees and so on, and to start digging that swimming pool.
So I suppose that answers your question as to how much money he needs on his own to trigger the ground being broken – none!
Raising the remaining £240m is the more difficult task.
But Jim, if the £60m is already there why hasn’t he/they begun work yet? Can they only do so if they have the rest of the finance in place? I would have thought IF he had the cash or felt he had the cash coming he’d have started by now to make that all important statement: I’m in Charge!
Jim – I think she was asking how much money Hicks would have to put on he table to be able to get a loan of the bank as they are not giing 100% mortages and loans.
midlands-red – There is a bit of time allowed before work starts for the government to call in the plans.
Jim: I can likely look this up online but maybe you’ve got it at your fingertips…what, ultimately, made Hicks bail out of Corinthians?
Seems Mr. Dawg’s on the defensive.
Just hang-in there Texas_Dawg, your hero may yet get the cash together to buy the club. Wouldn’t be in our interests but at least Hicks can enjoy making money. At least he’ll be happy, if not us.
Should he not get the cash together, good riddance to all the drama!
Defensive? Just explaining to you why GloryPark and the LFC stadium aren’t even comparable.
And Hicks has the financing to buy 100%, midlands. Gillett just doesn’t want to sell to him for now.
‘…Or brain dead idiots who don’t know what they are talking about…’
Quote of the day
why is a 30 year old hanging out with tom o hicks DD? i mean, i dont believe that you do, but if you could make up at least something entertaining, if not plausible….
PS- What “GloryPark” and the new Anfield have in common is the ability of tom o to finance their construction. not anything else. the matter has either been confused, or DD is trying to muddy the waters. and what evidence, which tom o would by any measure of logic want to have out there, is there of tom o having the finance to buy out gillett? why would he keep that a secret?
@midlands-red: (Don’t laugh, I checked this and it’s true!) The first obstacle is you can’t fell trees with nests in until the birds have cleared off again, which I think is usually sometime in June, but varies depending on something Bill Oddie could tell us about.
There’s also the wait for any judicial review, but if that decision is as quick as the last one it’s likely to be early-mid July.
After that the only reason that comes to mind is getting the equipment in place to do the work. I only say this after reading it somewhere or other. I can’t find where at the moment though. I did find an estimate made last July that the excavation phase for that version of the stadium would take 26 weeks based on 5-days-a-week working. That was in a document discussing the impact on traffic of the actual construction work.
@Julie: The Corinthians story is one of those issues I’ve been meaning to go back and look at.
Jim, thanks for the rough time line.
I’d heard the tree and birds nest thing somewhere before.
I think alongside on-the-record quotes, it’s the timelines that’ll tell us how serious or otherwise the 2 (or 3 if you include DIC) partners are in taking their ‘investment’ in LFC forward.
Texas_Dawg’s point about Hicks having offered (or having the money) to buy-out Gillett 50% share (but at at the same price as DIC?) is all well and good (well, actually, quite frightening!) but that’s beyond our crystal ball at the moment as we’re not involved in any talks. If there are any.
We’re just glad to hear news like todays which are factual, on-the-record and give a real insight into how Hicks is coping financially. But Texas_Dawg thanks for your thoughts. Now just get your boss talking more on-the-record (but not Sky Sports News-esque) about where he’s at with our club. Ta!
@Texas_Dawg:
“(Absolutely bang on Stephen, DIC must really want to own the club to be still interested.)
Can’t the same be said of Hicks then, Jofrad?”
Dawg, the unifying motivational factor for me is obviously money. Hicks wants to make money, DIC want to make money. Purely from a moralistic viewpoint however, do you not think that this has gone on for too long? I mean, TH knows that Liverpol fans are scared, distraught, and angry with the perception of what Hicks has done and intends to occur in the future. Whether this perception is apt or not, do you not think that a better, more humble man might just give what thousands of desperate people want and just fulfil their wishes? I can’t profess to be myself, but I hope Tom isn’t religious. If a god does exist and assuming we cross the pearly gates into heaven, what is Tom going to say to god when asked why he denied the wishes of thousands in pursuit of his own financial gain?
I’m sure on the inside at least Dawg you’ll be laughing at this post even if your reply is cordial as ever! Billionaires do not have morals do they?!
Jim, there are some links on Corinthians that you provided in this post:
Jim Boardman // Mar 4, 2008 at 9:37 pm
at this address:
*http://www.anfieldroad.com/news/200803042893/bid-rejected-but-liverpool-talks-go-on-into-night.html/
WARNING!
The Corinthians stuff is NOT for the faint hearted!
Thanks Edward…
“Worst of all, perhaps, is the case of the Hicks group. This group is a hedge fund based in Texas and linked to President George W. Bush. Hicks took over two teams, Corinthians and Cruzeiro, through contracts that should have run until the year two thousand and ten.
These deals included promises of construction of new stadiums. Hicks also bought forty nine percent of the traffic television network and dreamed up its own ultimate soccer business: Hicks teams facing each other in matches broadcast, naturally, by Hicks. Hicks set up a cable channel in Latin America, PSN, acquired national basketball association rights, formula one races and soccer championships at overblown prices. Hicks invested about five hundred million dollars and in only two years filed for bankruptcy”
Jim/Edward/Martin: so it was only the financial ruination of Corinthians, brought about by the bankruptcy of whatever holding company Hicks set up to run that business venture, that caused Hicks to back away?
Crikey…I have to say it again…what was David Moores thinking? Was his head wedged so far up the backside of his own bankbook that he couldn’t see the possibility of this coming?
I won’t go into all that here, Martin, but I’ve responded to your post elsewhere…
We’re just glad to hear news like todays which are factual, on-the-record and give a real insight into how Hicks is coping financially.
Midlands,
What are you thinking this Glory Park news tells you about Hicks’ financial situation and how it relates to LFC? Lay your case out for me.
But Texas_Dawg thanks for your thoughts. Now just get your boss talking more on-the-record (but not Sky Sports News-esque) about where he’s at with our club. Ta!
1) I don’t work for Hicks as I’ve explained.
2) What are you wanting him to tell the press?
I fail to understand the credibility the texas clown gets on this website. He has brought nothing to this forum only inane rubbish that any idiot who reads Hicks’ comments to the media can interperet.
What have Hicks’ franchises ever achieved?? He is a failure and he will be no good for Liverpool FC. He will never be accepted because he doesn’t understand us or know what we are.
Julie – It Simply Beggars Belief ??????????
This H&G comedy maybe to big for Anfield and Liverpool FC. From what I see, Liverpool will never have a chance to win trophies. Every time when the club in form and challenging the top, these off field comedies will come out time and time again to distract the players.
Worst of all, with all the quarrel of H&G, will any star player willing to signed for Liverpool?
All the transfer news were exciting for Liverpool fans, it’s like Rafa has all in the mind how to challenge the title.
But the truth is, will he be able to get financial support?
If the new stadium opens while Hicks is the owner, if we win #19 while Hicks is the owner, I for one would be happy to have a drink with him. If DIC were the owners I guess we could have a lemonade or a coke with them, seeing as they don’t approve of alcohol.
borrowed 60m in the bank or not, how many of us think that hicks and gillett will be willing to risk that by starting construction without the financing to complete the project? if that were to happen, they really would be forced to sell i believe.
but if they wait to begin construction until they have secured the financing to build the stadium, either or both could hang on for years to the club without any significant financial pressure developing (hopefully there would be massive amounts of supporter pressure of course).
why is it hicks, and not the club, you have announced a sort-of timeline for the beginning of construction?
@stephen – The Dawg gets credibility because he’s offering an alternative view but his views are increasingly not credible. But it’s good to play around with him
Julie,
“Crikey…I have to say it again…what was David Moores thinking? Was his head wedged so far up the backside of his own bankbook that he couldn’t see the possibility of this coming?”
Yes that’s exactly where David Moores keeps his brains which is why we’re in this mess now and why Liverpool have not won the top prize for 19 years.
Dawg doesn’t offer an alternative view he offers bullshit which can be summed up by one of his recent posts in which he says “hicks has the funds to buy gg’s shares” are we seriously expected to believe that a man with the ego of hicks would publicly admit that he cannot fund “glory park” (only a yank would come up with that name) but has the clout to buy out gg?
PLEASE CAN WE HAVE A FORUM SO I CAN PUT THE LIKES OF DAWG ON MY IGNORE LIST!!!
Tcguanz hits the nail on the head. Everytime we got a decent run together or approached a crucial cup game one of these 2 inbreds had to release a statement or interview. Sure the glazers aren’t ideal owners but at least they sit back and let the mancs get on with it our 2 pricks seem on a mission to destruct our season. Which ultimatley they succeeded in doing.
@Cory: “why is it hicks, and not the club, you have announced a sort-of timeline for the beginning of construction?”
Have the club been asked? If anyone’s bored today, try using the official site’s contact form to ask the question. Let’s see if they respond in detail or skirt round the issue. Be an interesting exercise.
@Fred: Dawg doesn’t offer an alternative view he offers bullshit which can be summed up by one of his recent posts in which he says “hicks has the funds to buy gg’s shares” are we seriously expected to believe that a man with the ego of hicks would publicly admit that he cannot fund “glory park” (only a yank would come up with that name) but has the clout to buy out gg?
The only thing I’ll butt-in with here is that the project is not the same as building a new stadium and buying a football club. It’s a different type of project. This is not an endorsement or otherwise of Hicks, I’m just pointing out that this blow in the US does not definitely mean he can’t get funding on other projects.
PLEASE CAN WE HAVE A FORUM SO I CAN PUT THE LIKES OF DAWG ON MY IGNORE LIST!!!
Nearly there!
Tom Hick’s has released a statement saying that the new stadium will be completed on time.
http://sport.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2008/05/16/Prem-Hicks-on-Liverpool-stadium/
When work starts on the stadium I’ll believe this cowboy. Hopefully the banks tell him to sell up to DIC before this any way.
Moving off the ownership debate for a moment does anyone else have any opinion on the current standard of players we are being linked with? It is only speculation and I admit i didnt see much spanish football this season but the prospects of signing the likes of Riera to me screams this could be a summer of buying our second / third choice transfer targets and definitley doesnt scream title challenge.
After seeing the success of torres we surely should be looking to sign a player of equal quality every summer at least until such time that we are actually putting in a genuine title challenge.
Its very premature of me to start moaning about the transfer situation but Ive a bad feeling that it will be a summer of bargain basement shopping.
Get used to it Juan its a slippery slope we are on and its going to get worse unless the ownership changes hands.
Here is a good, refreshing look at our underrated Lucas Leiva.
http://squarefootball.typepad.co.uk/squarefootball/2008/05/liverpool-a-dif.html
He’s fat
He’s round
His arse is on the ground
Sammy Lee, Sammy Lee.
I thinks its very good that old fatty Lee is back at the club a tradition returns to Anfield, all we need to do now is return to the old tradition of winning league titles.
And why are we always being linked with midfielders? We do not need midfielders we need forwards, wingers and left and right backs.
Keep on posting TD!
The mere fact that your detractors spend so much time insulting you is because, I believe, due to the uneerving prospect of you actually being right, and them; wrong.
i enjoy both sides of the argument though.
Or perhaps because he is a prick.
I’m going to delete this comment, it’s a bit OTT really. -Jim
Anthony,
Is there a need to use language like that? If it actually contributed to your argument I could just about cope with it but it doesn’t. This is an open forum. Keep it civil please.
On a more positive note I see there is a lot of speculation about the future of major players at Chelsea, Arsenal and now… Manure with the possibility of Ron being bought by Real Madrid. As Keegan would say “I’d just love it …”.
But the only one of the top four that isn’t suffering from this is Liverpool. Could it be that despite all the negative publicity regarding the owners the players actually love being with LFC. That say’s a lot about the club in my eyes.
I thought I’d post something positive because there are a few doommongers who are piddling me off!
Jim/Ray – Sorry for the language, but I do not think its much worse than using the word prick, but I do accept that it is OTT. SORRY!
@ray proudfoot
I’m tempted to say that apart from Torres and Gerrard none of our players would make any of the other top teams! Oops I’ve said it now!
Seriously, the media have tried to fly the kite on Gerrard and Torres being bought by Inter Milan and Chelsea. And of course, Xabi’s been said to be on his way to Real Madrid. And Crouch to Villa, Portsmouth, Man City and Villareal etc. 3 players have said ‘don’t be ridiculous’ and Crouch is undecided, maybe.
Rafa – as distant as he’s said to be from the players – has certainly earnt there respect particularly through what has been a difficult season. And now with Sammy on board, he’ll have a middle man and a really experienced coach and likeable man to keep the ship on an even keel.
All plans could be derailed if the team doesn’t get the investment it requires……….but we’ve heard this argument (on the lack of funds) before
Ray – Rons mum has been trying to get Ronaldo to join Real for a while. She got her picture taken with his name on a Real top, and she has been saying that she would love him to go to play for Real. Drogba is going to Milan with Jose, but the thing is with that situation it makes no difference because Abramovic will just put his hand in his pocket and splash the cash.
midlands-red – If Crouch leaves and Voronin goes out on loan Liverpool will have to buy at least 1 more striker this summer and no strikers have been linked to LFC so far. We keep being linked with midfielders but no wingers or strikers.
Anthony,
Thanks for your apology. I agree that p***k is also an unwanted word. Fred, you’re on a yellow .
But whether other clubs want our players or not I’m still pleased that the players themselves are not voicing their concerns about the club – Gerrard excepted and none of us would disagree with him. Alonso wants to stay and I’m pleased to hear that because it would be so easy for him and his wife and kiddie to return to Spain.
Even Crouchie really wants to stay despite his dreadful treatment by Rafa.
Anyway, nice to see Sammy back. I was at Maine Road in the early 80s and saw Sammy score a headed goal!! Could that be his only one? What was the defender doing for Pete’s sake??
Anthony, also agree with you that we need one more decent striker although £20M would appear to be a dream!
Ray Proudfoot – I think that we might be in for a surprise during the summer. I think the reason that Crouch has been left this season is not because Rafa doesn’t rate him but more a case that crouch does not fit in with the new formation that Rafa has chosen to adopt. On saying that though there where plenty of times when we played a 442 and he could have played Crouch but he chose Voronin instead. I think that we will buy one striker if crouch leaves in the summer which I believe he will. Pennant and Crouch are both suffering from the same problem they where bought when Rafa played a 442 now he plays a 4-3-2-1, which leaves no room for these two.
Yes, the post with the word p**** in it nearly got sent off too, but I went all Steve Bennett and failed to deal with it properly!
I actually tried to install a word censoring system for this site but it was hopeless, I’ll keep an eye out and see if they’ve updated (fixed) it yet.
Keep on posting TD!
The mere fact that your detractors spend so much time insulting you is because, I believe, due to the uneerving prospect of you actually being right, and them; wrong.
i enjoy both sides of the argument though.
Thanks, MO, but I don’t mind the disagreement and of course expect it. No big deal.
As I’ve said before, I’m cognizant of the fact that Liverpool isn’t my team and that I don’t have the emotional attachment to it that others do. If you look at my posts, I haven’t tried to tell the fans here what they should do or what they should want for their team. I’m a sports fan and would hate non-fans doing that to me about my teams. So I don’t get into player decisions, strategy, etc. here.
All I’ve really done in my posts is to correct what I believer are factual errors… doing so from the perspective of a fan of Hicks’ other teams and as someone from Hicks’ area of the world. I don’t deny I’m somewhat biased being a friend of the family, but I can also provide some insight into some articles and past events that Liverpool fans, being far removed from some of this stuff (geographically and culturally), would understandably not know much about.
Most people here are civil and seem to find this fair, even if they disagree with my points. Then you have a few like Fred who will throw a fit at anyone breaking 100% agreement with what they want to be the case… even if the facts of the situation are completely out of line with their version of events. Fred had a bizarre version of Hicks’ past history as an owner and when I (as well as another American poster) educated him about American sports and Hicks’ teams, he flipped. A tiny percent like Fred will exist in any group and aren’t people worth taking seriously though.
Texas Dowg – I take Fred alot more seriously than i take you. You are no friend of the Hicks’. You have said nothing to prove to me otherwise.
P.s. Hicks’ franchises are all underperforming flops. Records speak for themselves I’m afraid.
@Juan
Agree totally with your post @ 1:57pm.
Players like Barry might improve our squad slightly but it’s players like Torres who make the fundamental difference. You can bet your botttom dollar (lol), that Man U and Chelsea will at least try and sign 1 player like this who can make the difference. Ok, our squad is a year older, but it was deemed good enough for this season, why not just add a single player who has proved himself as world class? No guarantee to be an instant hit like Torres but surely its got to be better than signing 4 ‘Pennants’?
The problem is the other top sides will sign a player or two of this type and ALSO buy there neccessary squad players.
It does have that all too familiar feeling of buying bargain basement, yes.
@Texas_Dawg…
“All I’ve really done in my posts is to correct what I believer are factual errors”
Dawg, I’ve seen a lot of your posts and i truly believe that many of them do not contain actual facts to back up your argument. Although i do enjoy the constant debates from both sides I wouldn’t put yourself above Fred.
“A tiny percent like Fred will exist in any group and aren’t people worth taking seriously though.”
Personally I’ve found your posts to be as bias as Fred’s and other posters on this site, just in the other direction. I also think despite your views, it’s wrong to say that people shouldn’t be taken seriously just because, as you’ve pointed out, they don’t agree with you. I myself asked you in a post only last week if you thought balance was important to any argument, which you said wasn’t. So for you to come out and say people like Fred shouldn’t be taken seriously because in your view they are wrong and can’t take an alternate view in good nature is somewhat of a hypocrisy.
Dawg, I feel that you take a condescending tone with other posters and despite disguising your replies in a conversational tone sometimes accompanied by a smiley face doesn’t disguise the fact that you often won’t hesitate in completely shooting down other opinions and won’t see reason or meet anyone ‘half way’.
To put it simply, I feel that you shouldn’t distance yourself from the same type of posters who you think shouldn’t be taken seriously. You just have a different method of going about your argument.
By distancing yourself from others by saying they shouldn’t be taken seriously reminds me of the difference between shooting a cow between the eyes and maiming it with a machete. The same intent, result and reaction is met, just the method and approach is different.
Texas_Dawg, I think you give a biased veiw, but if i was in your shoes i´d do the same!! I wouldn´t stand by and watch people have ago at my mate, however, you must admit that H&G have almost destroyed the club from the inside, you do not go to the press about your partner you do it in the Boardroom, where you´d have 100% of his attention… When you Lie, you lose respsect, for me, you don´t say at the Press Conferance that you and your Partner will not do a Glaizier and dump debt on the club, and then later you do the opposite and Dump Debt on the club!!! Hicks and Gillett said we will buy players on the same scale as that club to the East of us…i.e Man Utd, well i am waiting, and don´t say Torres was a product of that, as that was done because Benitez made that money up from sales and from what Parry and Moores made available, not H&G…could you shed some light on this…
@Stephen. He is a friend of Tom Hicks’ son, the imaginitively titled Tom. I have verified this myself through searching his other posts on other websites where other people have asked him about going to fly over to see the game with “Tommy” to support “Daddy’s team”. Jim also has verified this.
At the end of the day we’re all big enough and ugly enough to disgaree with him if we want to. Given the perspective he is coming from and seeing how the majority of us (myself included) do not want Hicks as owner, it’s natural we are going to disagree with him, but have you thought about trying to embrace his knowledge rather than just rejecting it instantly on principle?
I’m not discounting the fact that he is going to have a bias, but sometimes it better to try and read between the lines rather than brush over them.
Martin – I do not believe for a single minute that TD is in any way aquainted to Hicks. He tried to show me a website that allegedly poved that he was a pal of the Hick’s clan. The picture was no way a genuine photo. I think that TD may be pissing himself laughing at all the people who believe him.
Anthony, it took me an hour + of searching on the net when I litterally had nothing else to do, but I can confirm he is good friends with Tom’s son.
It would be a pretty elaborate bluff if he wasn’t!
Do you still have the link to that site anthony?
Martin – I do not have the link but it was a link to some college site or somthing. TD has got all the time in the world to create this make believe world to try to fool us into believeing that he is some friend of Hicks. Martin you are an intelligent person ask yourself a simple question, do you believe that Tom Hick Jr would ascociate with someone like dawg. All dawg that dawg is, is a wooden spoon, he just stirs it by standing left of centre. There is no fact to his argument just speculation, he just plays devils advocate. He claimed that he went to the villa game at the beginning of the season and showed me a picture on a website that he apparently took while he was there. The problems with the photo was firstly the picture was taken in the Villa end of the stadium, secondly the seats where taken from the cheapest seats in the house and thirdly he said the game was a brilliant game but the Villa game was crap. Martin the internent is full of cranks.
Martin – Don’t get me wrong though I do not mind Dawg, I just take him with a pinch of salt. Above I was just implying that he was a hill billy, but I do not mind him.
Martin – Do you have the links that he showed you?
I’m not in favour of censorship.
Now trying really hard here not to cuss I would like to correct a point made by Dawg………….you haven’t and cannot in any way shape or form educate me due to the fact as I stated earlier you are a grade 1 class A “prick”. I don’t give a monkeys whether you like my posts or not as I believe you are are stirrer of faecal matter. Your facts are cow poop and totally biased. Your blinded by your faith in hickabilly who as I have pointed out has messed up any sports franchise he has touched but of course you are selective in what you reply to. Your problem with me stems from the fact I don’t believe for 1 minute that you have anything to do with hicks your just some bored kid who post here to wind us up. Sadly others believe you in your claims that you hace cosy chats with uncle tom’s spawn.
I am as stated 100% behind DIC simply because they are the only real alternative to the 2 clowns who currently own us. I have never denied my bias.
Just like to add that on other forums you have the option to have the swear words removed from posts before you read them. I prefer that as opposed to deleting someones post.
@Anthony, “Martin you are an intelligent person ask yourself a simple question, do you believe that Tom Hick Jr would ascociate with someone like dawg?”
I don’t know Anthony. I don’t know what Tom Hicks Jnr is like as a person? Perhaps he would! I don’t think Dawg has said anything nasty or vindictive though has he? Just that he has showed support for Hicks. Maybe that is the type of person THJ would associate with!
Sorry, Anthony, respect your opinion totally, but I guess we’re gonna have to agree to disagree. As I say, I have seen comments made to Dawg but random posters which I think prove his link.
@Anthony, “Martin – Do you have the links that he showed you?”.
Actually he didn’t show me any links I found them myself. Ok, well, it might take me a while to find it again… If you go on www igottarant . com and search texas_dawg you’ll see that he has posted quite literally thousands of times and it was in one of these blog conversations. Imagine trawling back through the comments on this site and you’ll knwo what I mean, but I’ll try and find it for you…
Found one Anthony. Actually funnily enough it is the one with the Villa photo… Check out the last two comments made well before he started posting on this site: http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=45481
@Fred: “Just like to add that on other forums you have the option to have the swear words removed from posts before you read them. I prefer that as opposed to deleting someones post.”
On other forums, where it’s used, swear words are removed automatically. But then, on top of that, abusive posts will be removed by moderators. Anthony’s post was not really what I’d want to see on this part of the site, in any way shape or form. The swearing wasn’t the issue.
Also read the comments on page 2, mention to tickets being brought by Liverpool owners and how they ‘got a good deal’.
http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=45481&page=2
I guess it’s up to you whether you believe it or not, but as i say it would be a pretty elaborate bluff.
Martin – And that was posted before he started posting on this site. It still doesn’t prove he is telling the truth, he may have been posting under a different name. Is hadnot, Hick’s son that he was having conversations with then why would Hick’s son sit in the cheapest seats in the Villa end.
Jim, out of a perverted interest, can you send me Anthony’s post?! I’m over 18, but you’ll know that from my email address. hahaha!
@ Anthony, “then why would Hick’s son sit in the cheapest seats in the Villa end.”
Dunno Anthony. Just seems unlikely to me is all.
I never saw the Anthonys post but I respect your right to remove any posts that are offensive. I was replying more to Ray than yourself. I am grateful for the fact that you have allowed my posts when the language has been abit course. I don’t have a problem with you deleting any abusive posts I was just pointing out that in my book swearing is ok.
Martin that was posted on the eigth of december. The Villa game was on the 11 august. It does not refer directly to the owners of LFC. And why would Hicks want to buy tickets for his personal friends when he can get them for nothing from LFC.
TD is what/who he says he is. And although the ranting site mentioned helped me to first work this out, I’ve since had it confirmed rather more conclusively.
You might not agree with him, but I think he’s genuinely telling us as much as he can of what he knows. I don’t believe he’s lying. If his what he says (opinions excluded) turns out to be incorrect then it’s either him being lied to or him misunderstanding something.
His opinions will be as biased towards Hicks’ side as much as yours would if your friend was facing endless criticism, at least some of which you knew was unfounded. You’d get the same type of bias if a friend of Gillett, Parry, Moores or Staveley turned up on here. I wouldn’t expect anyone to listen to anything these friends said and take it to be 100% true. But if they were lying we’d spot it eventually. No harm in listening, no difficulty in being polite.
Just a theory here now. Let’s assume that Hicks can’t afford to buy his partner out, the assumption most fans have had for a while anyway. Has all the anger and venom made Hicks see this as more of a challenge than he might have done? Would he have given up sooner had he not faced these hostilities? Would he have come up with a compromise solution sooner if people had at least listened to him, if DIC were actually looking for one?
Maybe it wouldn’t have made a difference, but to me it’s human nature that if you’re getting that kind of abuse you’ll either pack up and leave, stripping the place as you go, or you’ll close the windows, arrange some extra soundproofing and carry on regardless, in defiance of the protests. Seems that in this case the second one has happened.
Actually mate it was the 12th of August – their dates are posted in a different format to ours for example today is the 8/16/08.
It does refer directly to the owners “The tickets were arranged for us by the Liverpool owners”
And it also says the tickets were ‘arranged’ not purchased.
At the end of the day mate I don’t want to get into an argument with you. Let’s just say I believe him and you don’t, eh?
Jim – The only way that you could of had it confirmed that Dawg is aquainted to Hick’s is if Hicks has confirmed it himself. If that is the case then maybe you are taking a bung of Hicks.
@Fred: I don’t particularly mind swearing either, I use the words often enough myself! But I suppose there’s a time and a place for swearing, there are many situations where I wouldn’t dream of swearing. Stoppage time in a CL semi-final first leg isn’t one of them, it turns out…
I’m hoping the forum has built in asterix-adding capabilities, but I think that it might be possible for individuals to turn it off so they can see the uncensored version. Setting the forum up has been the cause of more swearing from me too…
@Anthony Fakir: It was actually Amanda, Sameer and Rick, when we were all out on the ale last week. I said I wondered if TD was a phoney, and they all went very serious and warned me he was genuine. David Moores wasn’t out with us that night, but it seems he lost big money on a game of Junior Scrabble in the Villa boardroom, TD cleaning up.
If only their bung had arrived on time I wouldn’t have had to reveal all this now.
” The tickets were arranged for us by the Liverpool owners. So I imagine they’ll be in the Liverpool section. I think we’ll just wear American flags to be safe. ”
Martin – I will eat some humble pie and say that I was wrong to believe that he never said anything. The one problem that I have with Dawg is that he does not empathize with the LFC fans. He seems to believe that Hicks is doing a wonderfull thing by LFC without taking into consideration the fact that ultimatly it will be LFC fans that will provide this club with success on the pitch and also a new stadium.
The web site could be a couple of lads having a laugh between themselves and Dawg has just took it one step further and carried on the wind up on this site. The fact that he said something on a web site does not prove that he actually went the game or that he knows the Hicks clan, and there are inconsistencys in Dawgs claims to prove that to be the case.
Jim – So your now trying to say that you go out on the piss with those three. Sameer is a muslim so he doesn’t drink.
” Hadnot and I were in the middle of the Liverpool section, and after that goal (which was the game-winner, coming with just a few minutes left) I felt a little weird just standing and watching given that the whole place around us was going insane. I was also trying to guard my wife from the people behind us that a couple times had to use our backs and heads from falling a couple rows forward in their celebrating. ”
Dawg above claims to be sitting in the liverpool section during the Villa game, but if you look at the photo you will see he is sat in the home stand.
@Jim
“Just a theory here now. Let’s assume that Hicks can’t afford to buy his partner out, the assumption most fans have had for a while anyway. Has all the anger and venom made Hicks see this as more of a challenge than he might have done? Would he have given up sooner had he not faced these hostilities? Would he have come up with a compromise solution sooner if people had at least listened to him, if DIC were actually looking for one?”
It did occur to me after the Sandon incident that it might have an adverse effect on proceedings but I think it’s far too simplistic to cite this as the main motivator behind his persistence. When all is said and done Hicks is here to make money and will balance his motivation between risk and reward. It may have contributed to it on the periphery but I highly doubt it would act as the deciding factor.
Plus, that might be a false assumption to make Jim!
@Anthony Fakir:
Jim – So your now trying to say that you go out on the piss with those three. Sameer is a muslim so he doesn’t drink.
Doesn’t mean he can’t let his hair down. It might be the sugar in the J2O that does it, hard to tell. Don’t ever try outdrinking George either, that’s a serious warning. I’ve never seen so much brown ale supped in a night. Or babycham chasers for that matter.
@Jim “David Moores wasn’t out with us that night, but it seems he lost big money on a game of Junior Scrabble in the Villa boardroom, TD cleaning up. ”
Lol – How cognizant of you! (Still don’t know what that means)
@Anthony, “The fact that he said something on a web site does not prove…”
True.
@Martin: Yes, I agree it wouldn’t be a major or deciding factor, but I can’t believe this amount of hostility hasn’t played some role in the decision making. Especially the various little bits and pieces that have been thrown at him that actually weren’t down to him.
As you say though, the assumption might be false!
PS: Sent you an email.
” He’s going to be there the next weekend for Liverpool’s home opener. Sunday though, and we are flying out that day. ”
I do not believe that Hicks attended the first game of the season.
I think he meant Hicks Jnr tho…
” The tickets were arranged for us by the Liverpool owners ”
If Dawg is so well aquainted to Hicks why does he not refer to Tom. He refers to the ‘Liverpool owners which would imply that he does not know tem.
Also the photo he put on his the site is appears on this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Park,_England
Martin – I don’t care anymore believe him if you want, but I don’t.
” I was also trying to guard my wife from the people behind us that a couple times had to use our backs and heads from falling a couple rows forward in their celebrating. ”
I have sat on the Kemlyn road ansd when there was a goal scored I never got pushed fowrard nor did I ever have to defend myself. When I have stood on the kop maybe but not in a seated area.
” wear good shoes. Expect to stand the whole time. Mostly male crowd but people kept separate so not lots of instadium brawling. ”
The statement about people being kept separate is not true. People are no longer kept separate in football stadia.
Anthony, The picture on the link isn’t one that he took as you quite rightly pointed out – he got it from Wikipedia. But he never claimed that it was his photo did he?! In fact, the original post was made on Wednesday the 8th of August headed “Hadnot and I are going to the Liverpool/Aston Villa game Saturday…
How could he of taken a photo of something he wasn’t going to for 3 days? The photo was for illustration purposes only, which explains why he claimed he was actually in the Liverpool end and the photo was the Villa end.
P.s. Hicks’ franchises are all underperforming flops. Records speak for themselves I’m afraid.
Stephen,
A Detroit Redwings/Liverpool fan from the US (I forget his screenname) already backed me up in pointing out that this statement is false. The Dallas Stars have been one of the top 5 winningest teams in the NHL over the past 15 years.
Is hadnot, Hick’s son that he was having conversations with then why would Hick’s son sit in the cheapest seats in the Villa end.
Anthony,
“Hadnot” is a friend of mine who lives in London. My wife and I were in London to stay a few days with him before heading on to Barcelona for a few days on our vacation last year. EPL opening weekend so I let Tommy know and he had the tickets waiting for us at Villa Park. (The picture I included was before the game (see the date of the post… as Martin noted: before the game). I just got it from Wikipedia as noted above.)
You’re trying too hard here, Anthony. This really isn’t that big a deal.
I think he meant Hicks Jnr tho…
Correct, Martin. Tommy was in Liverpool the next weekend for the Chelsea game. I would love to have gone to that one too, but the game was on Sunday, and we were flying back to the US that day.
And, Anthony… you being the fan of random information that you are
(as am I, by the way) … my friend’s “Hadnot” screenname comes from Butch Hadnot, a running back for the University of Texas… where my friend (as well as Tom, Jr.) went to school. (I try not to hold that against them though. 
)
TD you got the phone number for TH , wouldnt mind a bit of a football chat
‘…the internent is full of cranks…’
Another delicious quote.
Keep it up TD, unlike those of certain others, your posts are generally worth reading.
Some rumours going around we might be about to sign Andrea Dossena from Udinese. He’s a fair quality left back 26 years old who has one cap for Italy. Probably be part of Euro 2008.
Not sure if its great news, but its definitely good news if true, I reckon he’s better than anyone else we have in that position at the moment. Oooh imagine it, an eye-tie defender lol
Oops scratch that last comment about Dossena being part of Euro 2008 – I just checked he’s not in the squad.
Bloody hell I’m doing an Anthony and spamming the forum. I must be the only one up.
This might be old news but I’ve only just seen it. Shinawatra is not only sacking Sven but he’s apparently putting the whole Man City team up for sale.
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_3572378,00.html
Be thankful Moores didn’t sell to this bloke!
Ghsoh! You guys’ve been busy since i last visited the site!
@ Jim Boardman
“Maybe it wouldn’t have made a difference, but to me it’s human nature that if you’re getting that kind of abuse you’ll either pack up and leave, stripping the place as you go, or you’ll close the windows, arrange some extra soundproofing and carry on regardless, in defiance of the protests. Seems that in this case the second one has happened.”
Seems to accept a shift in Hicks position?
If Hicks had the money, or wasn’t seriously affected by the credit crunch (and today I read the construction industry is already feeling the pinch from (the lack of) private and public sector contracts) wouldn’t he be doing more than being defiant. He’d be doing a Shinawatra _ throwing his weight around.
Speculation aside, where’s more on-the-record Hicks/Gillett/DIC quotes. I’m getting hungry over here!!!
Question (for anyone who knows): What length of contract has Sammy Lee got?
Trying to piece together my very complicated analysis – well, actually, it’s very simple – on whether it means Rafa’s going to get a new contract and soon (now he’s sorting out his backroom staff).
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/pennant-on-way-out-as-liverpool-covet-bentley-829969.html
Lets hope so I think Bentley is a cracking player.
As proved earlier by the poster that had 3 ids and had conversations with themselves, you can be anyone you want to be on here. Go to any forum use their log in name here and wahey people assume you are the person from the other forum.
@midlands-red: You can’t go to sleep around here any more MR, you never know what you’ll miss! Actually you do – same old same old really!
Not sure what you mean by “seems to accept a shift in Hicks’ position”. What I’ve always tried to say in this is that the range of possibilities over how the ownership can go isn’t as narrow as it’s often painted. Just as all the “JP Morgan to force Hicks to sell LFC” style stories can be true, so can a large number of alternatives. One version of the “JP Morgan to force Hicks to sell LFC” stories said it would happen as soon as we went out of the CL, another one was as soon as the season ended, and time has shown us that at least that detail didn’t happen.
That’s the problem really – we’ll probably not know the truth of any claim until it actually happens, or until the whole saga comes to an end. I’m now 100% sure there is no end-of-May deadline in place, even if that might be grounds for someone to be sued for negligence, but short of all parties going on record to confirm it the only other way we’ll know is when we get to June 1st!
We can only go off the information we get as to what’s happening. On-the-record quotes are almost as rare as a Rob Jones goal.
In the meantime people still fall into the trap of thinking every negative story about Hicks has to be true, every positive story about Dubai has to be true. The Malouda story – we’ll be buying him if DIC take over – was an obvious example. A lot of people actually believed it. And hardly anyone questioned the root of the story. It came from the only newspaper we officially boycott, the one we’ve boycotted for 19 years, but far too many people glossed over that because it fitted in with the Hicks-out agenda.
If a similar tale had come out, printed in the Mirror say, linking us with some other £10m player, but only if Hicks took over, it would have been laughed off on the spot and allowed to fade into the usual transfer window pit of dodgy rumours.
The same kind of logic goes into every story, rumour, claim etc over the takeover. The hedge funds story was printed in one paper, with from what I recall a quote from an unnamed source, in an article that mentioned at least one company currently owned by DIC as having been approached by TH. He might have approached hedge funds. He might have asked them for the 1%, having found the other 49% from a more standard type of investor. Or the percentages may have been swapped around. Or he might not have actually gone. No other newspapers have added further evidence to that story by getting quotes, named or unnamed, from their own hedge-fund sources.
Yet now it’s become an accepted “fact” that Hicks approached hedge funds.
How many other Tom Hicks or DIC stories are just financial equivalents of Didier Baptiste?
With regards Sammy Lee, I understand what you’re saying, and I’ve not been able to find out how long his contract is for. I’m not sure how much we could rely on it for an indication of whether Rafa’s on for a new contract. Obviously if Lee’s here for 3 years then it bodes well for Rafa, but if it’s only for 2 then it still doesn’t mean no contract will be offered. Lee’s hardly going to come out and say “I wanted 4 but they gave me 2″, or for that matter “I was unwilling to commit to more than 1 year until the ownership is resolved”. Maybe we’ll hear something in the next day or two, but even then we’ve got to take it all with a pinch of salt.
No matter what people think of Hicks, I think most will agree we dodged a bullet with Mr Shinawatra (although I’m basing that on stories I read about him that could be complete fabrication, I’ve not really looked that closely!)
One other thing, I get the feeling this Glorypark development means as much to Rangers fans as the later retail developments in Kirkby will mean to Evertonians when (if) their stadium gets built. If their owner was a partner in those retail developments out there, I couldn’t see bloos shouting from the rooftops about how disgusted they were that a new John Lewis / Primark shop wasn’t now going to happen.
Dawg – Jim had a conversation with three people who he caimed to be involved in a witch hunt with. The fact that you have put a few random quotes on another forum does not mean jack to me. On top of all that the way you get so defensive about people not believeing you is also a dead give away that you are stringing people along. It wouldn’t be the most dificult thing in the world to invent a few people on a website and then join a forum and start giving people the run around on that site and use another site to back up your story. Criminals do that kind of thing all the time to give themselves an alibi. I do not personaly believe that Hicks would associate with people who would spout off on LFC forums by claiming to know them, and if they did they would definatly tell you to tone down the way you have shown no respect to any LFC fan on this site. You have come on this site and shown no empathy to any of the LFC fans and have just sat on your high horse with substanceless claims which in truth have very little meaning, and provoked alot of bad fealing towards Hicks and Co. And it for these reasons I believe that if you did know Hicks and Hicks knew that you was being so arrogant towards LFC fans in the way you have been in his name he would have told you to put a sock in it. You just get under my skin sometimes the way you act like a wooden spoon everytime someone has an opinion on the situation, and you come in as an apperently informed person on the subject and shoot everyone down. You remind me of Drogba with his diving.
With regards to the photo I actually noticed the date last night but I was to tired to be arsed commenting on it.
But as I said earlier I do not mind you, I just take you with a pinch of salt.
What are the pedictions for the FA cup today? I am looking forward to it more today than I would if Manc U or Chavski where in it.
I think 2 – 0 for Portsmouth.
phillfc // May 16, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Texas_Dawg, I think you give a biased veiw, but if i was in your shoes i´d do the same!! I wouldn´t stand by and watch people have ago at my mate, however, you must admit that H&G have almost destroyed the club from the inside, you do not go to the press about your partner you do it in the Boardroom, where you´d have 100% of his attention… When you Lie, you lose respsect, for me, you don´t say at the Press Conferance that you and your Partner will not do a Glaizier and dump debt on the club, and then later you do the opposite and Dump Debt on the club!!! Hicks and Gillett said we will buy players on the same scale as that club to the East of us…i.e Man Utd, well i am waiting, and don´t say Torres was a product of that, as that was done because Benitez made that money up from sales and from what Parry and Moores made available, not H&G…could you shed some light on this…
midlands-red – We need to get a coach to replace Pako as well.
Hello, i have added my post again as it was ignored, some people on here tend to only concentrate replying to the same posters, only Jim and Texas_Dawg have answered me in the past, a forum is a good thing, at least try and include other people in the conversations, i may not appear on here alot with my opinion but i check it out every day
phillfc – Yeah but Phil if your ‘mate’ was the owner of a football club then you would have to accept that some people will critisize you no matter what. You would not be so bothered you would get someone on a forum claiming to know you defending you.
I’ll be hoping Cardiff win, would be nice for them. I’ll also be keeping an eye out for Robbie if he gets a kick (I heard he was in the squad) and for Aaron Ramsey.
Either way at least its one the Mancs won’t be winning
phillfc – I care about you Phil, see.
Hop – I do not care who wins, I will just be a neutral and enjoy what I believe will be a bloody great game.
90 days and 22 hours until the next series of soccer am starts.
Hop – Are you going to watch it? It will be on in he early hours in the morning in Oz.
Yeah I’ll be watching, kicks off at midnight here which is no dramas. Its the 2am kick offs that are really tough!
Hi Anthony, its nice to share opinions and get things of your chest, i basically talk LFC all day, every day, my wife is sick and tired of it, so i go to sites like this, and talk with like minded people, because it is another great day in LFC Land!!!
I respect the opinion of T_D even though i don´t like Hicks, it is another way to understanding him (Hicks)
We are in a position through the web to talk to people around the world, and for me that means promoting LFC and what we stand for… you have to understand that what you say in some ways does actually get back to Hicks or Hicks jnr, the very people that you shout about are, i imagining reading what you write.
but its good speaking to you.
phillfc – What I was talking about with regards to Dawg was the other day I was listening to BBC radio Merseyside. Alan Jackson said on the show that he believed that this whole saga with the two yanks was just a ploy to get more money out of DIC. Dawg then posts some nonsense saying that AJ was speaking out of his backside. He fired a broadside at the post. His post just seemed very confrontational, he appeared to just be stirring it, to go along with a little game that he is playing, there was nothing inteleigent to what he said. I believe that if Hicks did want to understand the feelings of the fans he would not behave like Dawg, he would pretend to be a Liverpool fan and court as many different responses by pretending to be one of them. Not by being cocky like Dawg has been. Dawg has caused Hicks more problems on this site than he has solved, and I do not believe that Hicks would want anyone stirring it on him like Dawg is doing.
Texas Dowg – The records speak for themselves!!
Stanley Cup Winners
2000–01
Colorado Avalanche (WC)
2001–02
Detroit Red Wings (WC)
2002–03
New Jersey Devils (EC)
2003–04
Tampa Bay Lightning (EC)
2004–05
Not awarded
2005–06
Carolina Hurricanes (EC)
2006–07
Anaheim Ducks (WC)
That’s 6 different winners in 6 years!
Losing Finalists
2000–01
New Jersey Devils (EC)
2001–02
Carolina Hurricanes (EC)
2002–03
Mighty Ducks of Anaheim (WC)
2003–04
Calgary Flames (WC)
2005–06
Edmonton Oilers (WC)
2006–07
Ottawa Senators (EC)
That’s 9 different teams in 6 finals. Must be really difficult to break into that monopoly!!! Hicks is a genius the way he’s developed the Stars to not be able to get a piece of that action!!
@Jim “In the meantime people still fall into the trap of thinking every negative story about Hicks has to be true, every positive story about Dubai has to be true”
I haven’t believed one story in the press for many months.
Look at the facts since Hicks has taken over. That is all any Liverpool fan needs to do to be disgusted with his running of our club. The facts are there Jim. Please forget about the Press and look at the way the club has been run!! More of the same? No thank you.
I’m sick to the teeth of his lies, disrespect, back stabbing and public fighting. The man has no class. He’s a two bit hustler. We all know it by nothing more than his actions. He has to go (they all do – but if he goes all will follow – Parry, Moores and Gillett – and good riddance). He’s the key hence he gets most attention.
As is always the case Stephen hits the nail on the head. 1 word sums up hicks and gg LIARS simple as that forget everything else. They have lied to us the fans, the most important aspect of any club.
Right on Stephen,
Hicks’ current position is stiffling the development of the club, there is no effective management function or strategy whatsoever. The man is just hanging on in there, hoping to survive and at the same time frustating the attempts of his co-owner to sell his stake to DIC which without any shadow of doubt is far and away the best way forward for the club. On top of all this the man is about as unpopular as it is possible to be with fans and is outvoted 2 to 1 on the board. Isn’t obvious to all that the only reason he’s still interested in Liverpool is that he can smell money in the long term, he doesn’t give a monkey’s about anything or anybody else.
He is a hustler, chalatan and a conman and he will ruin the club if he stays as an owner.
Stephen,
All that your repeating that point does is show how little you know about the NHL and American sports leagues.
I and another American poster here have already explained your error to you.
I live in Dallas and Tom Hicks is a moron, except when it comes to his hockey team…..GO STARS!!!! The Texas Rangers have sucked and will always suck like a 10 dollar Whore….he cant get financing? The guy has a couple billion dollars in his wallet…….he is just waiting for the ignorant City leaders to step up and pony up some money like they did to help develop Jerry Jones Dallas Cowboys Stadium and the morons that run this city probably will…. He is a true Texas Wanker not a Texas Ranger.
Texas_Dawg – you are right I don’t know much about NHL. Hence i don’t post on NHL fan sites. All I am looking at are the stats. It looks like from the stats that it is an open league with lots of winners and finalists being drawn from all over. With no dominant team. I just wondered why the Stars are not successful in such circumstances? That is all.
I live in Dallas and Tom Hicks is a moron, except when it comes to his hockey team…..GO STARS!!!! The Texas Rangers have sucked and will always suck like a 10 dollar Whore….
So one team has been bad (and that long before Hicks came along), and the other has been very good (as acknowledged even by someone who hates Hicks).
Just as I’ve said. Thanks, Scott.
We Liverpool fans don’t believe not winning anything for years and years is very good. But I guess for teams run by Hicks failure is seen as very good! God help us Dowg if that is the level Liverpool is dragged down to.
Hicks has not progressed our club by one inch since he took over. No stadium, no money, no use. FACT. But we have be given copious amounts of debt for the pleasure. How much of that will you be paying back? Oh sorry, you won’t be paying it back but real Liverpool supporters will.
“Hicks has not progressed our club by one inch since he took over. No stadium, no money, no use.”
Agree, but I feel that the blame should not be directed all at Hickleberry Finn’s direction. Gillette also has a 50% stake in the business and this guy seems to have vanished back into the Rocky Mountains from where he came. Both of these individuals promised alot when they took over…….this seemed to be true with their signings of Torres and Babel, but now we are hearing Rafa has minimum funds to play with, must sell before he can buy etc etc. What we hear now is, if I (Hicks) takes over, I will wave my magic wand and get rid of the debt the club has, build a fantastic new staduim (struggling to get funds) and make LFC compete with the likes of UTD and Chelsea (can’t see that happening on the shoestring budget we have). As that old saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Both H&G talk way too much in my honest opinion.
Moores…..why why why?
All I can say is Beware. We were part of the design team that worked on the Glorypark garages from 2007-2008 and never received a dime for our work. This past January we found out from the Hicks Holdings COO that they have no intention of paying our invoices “because they lost money on the deal too.” Sadly we weren’t aware when we signed up for the work that we weren’t going to be paid for work completed if the deal didn’t go thru.